Alternating ammo in mag?

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by Staidan, May 27, 2014.

  1. Staidan

    Staidan New Member

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    For self defense mags, I've heard folks talk of alternating individual rounds between self defense rounds and round tip rounds within the same mag. I am wondering... (1) What your thoughts are on this? and (2) For those who have actually tried it (on a target of course), what difference did it make in your shooting?


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  2. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Different bullets weights will affect POI.

    If the bullets weights are the same, the POI should be close.

    I don't understand why one would do that (alternating). If I have to pull out the firearm for SD, then I want SD.
    If I am on the range, I would want to see where my SD ammo hits, so I would shoot some, but I would be using mainly target ammo on the range.

    So you could believe that I do not alternate.
     

  3. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    1) Seems like an answer to a question I've never asked. If for some reason one is using a caliber with expansion issues, a HP failing to expand will act much the same as a RN. Why complicate things with oddball loadouts? Choose a caliber of adequate performance using ammo designed for the task at hand.
    2) Haven't thought to try it. Assuming one chooses similar performing loads of matching weights, the difference should be minimal for POI and recoil, at least at typical SD ranges. CCI's Lawman brand produces both practice ammo and HP ammo with similar performance and consistency in mind.
     
  4. HOSSFLY

    HOSSFLY New Member

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    I see zero advantage -----a couple of disadvantages--
     
  5. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    your right, it has been talked about by folks before. most of the time the discussion ends with more negatives than positives. such as, some pistols may not load the next round properly, you cant be sure of what round is which while firing in a defensive situatuon. if you decide its what you want to do all i can say is be sure to practice and make sure your firearm, and ammo combination work reliably before needing it.
     
  6. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i have heard some people do this and their reasoning is logical, but personally i see it having a disadvantage for a couple of reasons.

    POI can change between different types of ammo.

    could cause possible feeding or ejection issues.

    better suggestion IMO, would be to carry two mags loaded with two different types of ammo, rather that alternating the ammo in one mag.

    it seems it would be much better to drop a mag and go to a different mag with another type of ammo.

    these are just my thoughts an opinions and not based on any real proof.
     
  7. phildenton

    phildenton New Member

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    I've seen people mention it here in regards to 32acp and 380acp defensive handguns. The problem is that 32 hp lacks penetration, while fmj can still over penetrate. Same is true about 380.
     
  8. eatmydust

    eatmydust New Member

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  9. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    I alternate ammo in m 9mm. Thee 9mm is pretty lame. If shoot an attacker twice I need more penetration because the next shots are going into his his pelvis or legs. I am not so cocky to think I can shoot someone in the head in a life or death situation but I can shoot his lower body that is a much larger target. FMJ ammo will penetrate and break larger bones that might stop a HP bullet. I am going to have a mixture of ammo when I am shooting in the lower body.

    I am not going to be concerned with over penetration. Unlike NYPD I passed hunters safety. I am not going to shoot into a crowd.
     
  10. therukh

    therukh New Member

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    Hungarian stacked magazines

    Back in the day, late 60's - early 70's, we taught about the Hungarian stacked magazine, named after the Hungarian method of alternating layers of potatoes then ham and other ingredients or alternating layers of fillings between pancakes. The idea, then as now, was to alternate different styles of bullets in the ammo in the magazine to increase the probability of getting tactical hits - full metal jackets for penetration through car doors or other partial cover/concealment then "flying ashtrays" (HP's) for devastating wound cavities in flesh. Arguments arose about which to start in the chamber as the first round. Different camps supported FMJ's first vs. HP's first. Back then there wasn't much variety in ammo choices and the first big, open-point HP's were making their debuts. At self-defensive ranges, the POI's probably aren't going to be so different as to rule out the Hungarian stack, but the choice of modern bullet technology makes it almost a moot point. There are several incredible SD rounds now that penetrate as well as a FMJ and expand impressively, Winchester's Bonded PDX-1's and Hornady's Critical Defense/Duty's & Speer Gold Dot's come to mind, among others. I, too, was caught up in the Hungarian stack for a while, but quickly lost interest as I wanted uniformity in my ammo and knowing exactly where the next round would hit if I needed to and had the time to be ultra-accurate. As Kenny Hackathorn & I always said, "you can't count during a gunfight," so you could never be sure what round was next.
     
  11. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    I've heard of folks doing this with small calibers as well. .380 is one where expanding ammo can have difficulty getting consistent penetration.

    9x19 and larger calibers seem to have adequate penetration with many modern expanding rounds.

    I don't see much advantage in adding variables in a mag. Bonded jacket HP rounds that feed reliably seem like the best "do-all" or compromise, depending on how you want to look at it.
     
  12. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I too use to do this in the 60's and 70's before I began testing ammo. What he said above is correct about modern ammo, BUT one of the things I found while testing ammo is the HP will almost always become 'plugged' with 'barrier' material and penetrate like a FMJ! So there is no need to worry about 'lack' of penetration when firing through heavy clothing or building material.:)
     
  13. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    Another reason I mix my ammo is it most likely going to be shot at a plastic softball or a steel target. I load a couple magazines of FMJ ammo for target practice. I walk out and neglect to drop the magazine with the HP ammo in it. The price of target practice just doubled. I take target practice a couple times a week. Also, I am game for fun at any time. When I am attacked by cans with a couple friends I would shoot up my HP ammo even if it costs $2 a shot.
     
  14. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    This is an OLD way of thinking. 30 years ago, HP ammo was not reliable. Sometimes it would expand too violently and fail to penetrate deeply enough. With modern ammo it is completely unecessary. Use a good controlled expansion HP (like the Speer Gold Dot) and rest easy
     
  15. Hookeye

    Hookeye Active Member

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    Mixed ammo, gun held sideways.............ubertactical.
     
  16. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    Lots of self defense is mental. If someone feels that a FMJ will give them an edge by all means they should load that ammo. I have seen the YouTube videos where critical defense busts a windshield and goes right through the headrest. I have also shot the windshield of a junk car with highly touted ammo and bullet bounced off the windshield. I couldn't duplicate the shot. Some people have similar experiences and feel the need for FMJ ammo. If that FMJ round gives them the confidence to keep pulling the trigger, they should load it.

    9mm cartridges are no powerhouse. If you can get 450 ft lb of energy consistently from a 9mm cartridge fired from a 3" barrel you need to patent whatever you have done. Most 115 gr +P+ 9mm ammo has a velocity of 1,300 fps when fired from a 4.5 barrel. That is about 435 ft lb of energy.
     
  17. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i'm sorry, but i have to disagree. at what distance and what round were you shooting that bounced off a windshield?

    i have shot windshields at 50 yards with a 17HMR that penetrated the windshield of a car. i have shot them at a distance of about 10 yards with a 22lr pistol and all calibers above that, and all of them penetrated the windshield. i have see 9mm ammo that wasn't even +P ammo that ended up in the trunk area of a car when shot at those distances.

    here are specs on the ammo i have used on the past in my informal testing that penetrated a car windshield at 30 feet. with the exception of the 17HMR.


    http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=23618

    http://www.hornady.com/store/17hmr-20gr-hp-xtp-box/

    http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=23962

    http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=23606

    http://www.hornady.com/store/357-Mag-158-gr-XTP/

    http://www.hornady.com/store/38-Special-158-gr-XTP/

    http://www.hornady.com/store/45-ACP-200-gr-XTP/

    http://www.hornady.com/store/44-Special-180-gr-XTP/

    http://www.hornady.com/store/44-Mag-200-gr-XTP/

    http://www.remington.com/comparison.aspx
     
  18. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    I have skipped a 9mm off of a junked Ford Falcon windshield at approximately 10 yds. Four other rounds went through. Freaky things do happen sometimes. The other four rounds didn't duplicate the performance if the one round. It was just weird. .38, .357, 9mm, .45, .223 and yes even .22 lr rounds have never done the same thing other times I've had an opportunity to shoot windshield glass. I don't think it had anything to do with the caliber or bullet as much as just the right angle.
     
  19. phildenton

    phildenton New Member

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    That is a very irresponsible attitude. FMJ can and will go through the intended target and hit a person standing behind.
     
  20. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Under the "right" circumstances, any bullet can go through the intended target.
    Hollow points can get plugged and act like FMJ.