After gun class

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by Tuco, Feb 20, 2011.

  1. Tuco

    Tuco New Member

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    Hi everyone. I finally took a handgun class yesterday. I learned a little about guns and I fired a box of rounds from a 9mm PX4.

    I really appreciate the time everyone gave me in a different thread. Now I am honing in on the gun I want and would like some thoughts.

    I'm going back on Thursday to fire a metal gun in 9mm. I'm going to get 1 free rental from the local gunny (sp). I like the way the Beretta M9 feels, and I like a Sig up there. I forget the model (drats!) Anyway, I think I am going to like the metal guns. I would love to lessen the recoil (regardless of how little there is in the 9mm), and I held a 1911 and it just felt great.

    I'll post back when I figure out which Sigs I held. I held a few and one felt good. I'll check back on Thursday.

    Q. As for the Beretta M9, does anyone have anything bad to say about it?
    A.

    I had wanted a manual safety, but after the class, I feel more comfortable without a manual safety. I already know not to put my finger on the trigger unless it is go time, so now I'm not sure I want one. It seems like it is one more thing to worry about.

    Q. Can you recommend a good metal piece without a manual safety in the price range of the M9?
    A.

    Q. I know the 1911 has a huge following...and I know why. Anybody have a lead on a used Colt 9mm 1911? $700 max?
    A.

    One more thing. Two guys were shooting 1911's yesterday. One was really accurate and one was way off. What's up with that? Are there any guns that can't be brought back into whack?

    Sorry for the long post and tons of questions.
     
  2. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    Congratulations Tuco, you're off to a great start.

    I believe the M9 is the military version of the Beretta 92 or vice-versa. I'm not 100% certain as the 1911 was the sidearm when I was in. My only complaint about it is that it's an awfully heavy pistol for a nine millimeter.
    See if you can handle a CZ 75B in 9mm, it's steel as well, but not quite as heavy, I personally prefer it over the Beretta.

    Most pistols are pretty accurate out of the box. There's really no way of telling what the issues may have been with those 1911's without looking at them and firing them.

    As far as steel pistols, nothing else feels like one, but they can be heavy to carry all day. That's why a lot of folks carry polymer framed handguns.

    Sigs are excellent pistols and if you choose to buy one, I'm sure that you'll be happy with it.

    As far as a finding a used Colt in 9mm, there may be one out there, but you're probably going to have a tough time finding one.

    Enjoy your search and take your time.
     

  3. russ

    russ New Member

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    +1 on the CZ. I just picked one up and absolutely love it. Very well built gun and a decent amount of aftermarket support for mags, grips, and such.

    The M9 is the military designation for the Beretta 92. I haven't handled a 92 in several years, but they do have a good reputation for reliability and also good aftermarket support for accessories.

    If you don't like the manual safety, don't engage it. Or simply shoot it enough to get accustomed to it. I don't like the safety on the CZ because I can't reach it with my strong hand thumb in a shooting grip, it's weak hand or adjusting my grip.
     
  4. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    CA,

    You are correct! The M-9 is the military designation for the Beretta 92-F

    Tuco

    The Sig is a very good pistol. Nothing wrong with the Beretta but in my opinion they do not automatically point as naturally as some of the other pistols. We carried the Beretta 92 F the 92FS and later the 96 F.
    I am not attempting to insult anyone because if a pistol fits you and you shoot well with it, that is the one for you. But when we went to another brand of pistol. The (One that I use to call combat Tupperware) Glock Model 22 and 23 in 40 cal. our overall agency scores improved by 11%. I could not say a whole lot about that. The results were conclusive. The Sig was right there also but at the time delivery was way out. Since it was end of the year budget money time dictated to us and we ordered the Glocks. Hated to say it at the time but it also was a good choice. I have a Sig 220 and it is a fine pistol. So it is important to take your time and buy one that fits you, you shoot well and you like. Sig-Springfield XD- Glock- 1911 Pistol-Beretta or whatever.
    Good Luck with your choice.

    03
     
  5. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    i was in the army during the transition from 1911 to m9 we had a lot of problems with them. inside 2 years i filled up the repair log with enough entries to equal 25 years of 1911 use in our arms room. supposedly they fixed a lot of those issues. i used to personally own a 92fs which is the civvie designation for the m9. my opinion total piece of junk. some folks like em and they do look cool. get the cz75 instead MUCH better gun

    should be easy to find a used colt for 700$ if you can find someone willing to give one up.

    accuracy in handguns is typically related more to the monkey holding it than the gun itself. even super cheap high points are decently accurate.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2011
  6. utf59

    utf59 New Member

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    If they aren't outside your budget range, look at any of the H&K 9mm models and the Browning Hi-Power.
     
  7. Tuco

    Tuco New Member

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    The Beretta seemed a little muzzle-heavy. I just thought that might help with recoil. I know the recoil on a 9 shouldn't be that bad, but that's what I was thinking.

    I did some more research and people seem to prefer the cz75 over the M9 hands down over all. I guess I'm eliminating the M9 quickly. The Sig was comfortable. I think it was the 226. I guess I'll look at the CZ and the 226.

    [strike]On that note, can you tell me the difference between the CZ 75B/D? I found it once but I can't find it again.[/strike] I found it. Manual safety vs. decocker.

    Thanks. Oh, and I liked the tupperware line.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2011
  8. Tuco

    Tuco New Member

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    Thanks for your input. The H&K's are indeed out of my budget. :-( I looked up the Brownings. It says they are single action and the British would keep them cocked. That wouldn't be right for me. It is a pretty gun though. It looks like the 1911. I had no idea I would like them so much!

    I think I'm still going to look at the Sig and the CZ. The 1911 is really more than I want to spend. I have to admit that.
     
  9. russ

    russ New Member

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    You need to be aware with the CZ75B that there are a few different models, there is a single action (like a 1911 in function, only fires with the hammer cocked), a de-cocker version like you already found, and the standard model which is SA/DA (single or double action, like a Ruger P-series and most non-cowboy revolvers). Just be aware of what you are looking at and what you want.
     
  10. sweeper22

    sweeper22 New Member

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    Of the metal 9mms I have experience with, I recommend these in order:

    1) CZ 75b (thumb safety)- I like the trigger, the feel, and the price. They're heavy, but it's a good weight.
    2) Sig P226 (no safety)- Best trigger of the bunch, great balance.
    3) Browning Hi-Power (thumb safety)- The most sleek of the bunch. Lighter weight, good balance, but trigger can be a little rough without removing the magazine disconnect.

    ((((( big gap )))))

    4) Beretta 92 (thumb)- Good gun, but a little bigger than it needs to be. Fat grip, which can be an asset if you've got big hands.
    5) Hi-Power Clones (thumb)- These budget BHP takeoffs can be really good shooters in the $250-450 price range. Brands such as FEG, Arcus, FM Argentine, etc.

    I own #1, 2, and 3....because, well, I like them that much. Honestly, it's splitting hairs between those three IMO. The CZ's price gives it the "buyer's value" advantage for my money. The Beretta just seems bulkier than necessary for my tastes, which is part of why I prefer the sleeker Browning and CZ designs.
     
  11. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    Ain't many types of 9mm guns I haven't owned. From the standpoint of size, weight, and quality - my keeper 9mm is a Sig P228. They're kind of hard to find but I got this CPO (certified pre-owned) on Gunbroker for a shade over $525. It's in mint condition and is just about the perfect 9mm IMHO...

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Tuco

    Tuco New Member

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    I just read about the differences. I'll see if the local gun store has the P228, but I won't sweat it if they don't. I want to buy a gun from that store just to build a stronger relationship with them.

    The article I read said that you can get an aluminum rail or a stainless steel rail. Can you tell me which is better and why?

    Thanks
     
  13. Tuco

    Tuco New Member

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    Thanks for this tip. That will be handy when I go back! I'll put in my notes now!

    Edit:

    So, if the CZ75B comes in a version with a de-cocker, then what is the difference between the B and D versions?

    @Sweeper22: Will make note! I've been changing my mind back and forth about that damned safety.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2011
  14. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    Not sure I understand you here. Most Sigs have alloy frames, a few are all stainless steel. As far as rails, most newer Sigs have them, older ones do not. The P228 was "replaced" by the P229 and it comes with and without rails...
     
  15. Tuco

    Tuco New Member

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    I should have copied the info onto my clipboard and pasted it here. That's OK. I'll go back on Thursday and work it out. Y'all gave me everything I need to know.

    Thanks to all.
     
  16. rjgnwdc

    rjgnwdc New Member Supporter

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    [strike]On that note, can you tell me the difference between the CZ 75B/D? I found it once but I can't find it again.[/strike] I found it. Manual safety vs. decocker.

    Thanks. Oh, and I liked the tupperware line.[/QUOTE]

    The D stands for De-cocker not sure what the B is for but a buddy of mine bought a CZ97BD their .45acp
     
  17. USEBOTHHANDS

    USEBOTHHANDS New Member

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    [​IMG]

    P226R .40 caliber w/pic rail (SureFire X300 Weapons Light attached)

    P226 is the full-sized version
    P226R is the full-sized WITH a pic rail
    P229 is the compact version
    P229R is the compact WITH a pic rail

    the "safety" is in the trigger mechanism -- as the trigger is pulled rearward, a "depressor" mechanism is levered upwards towards the underside of the slide. as the trigger continues rearward (and depressor continues upward), a "button" on the underside of the slide is depressed, and starts disengaging a firing pin block that rests between the firing pin and the external firing pin "button" that the hammer strikes.

    you can also get a DAO (Double Action Only) model with the DAK trigger. Double Action Kellerman which puts the first trigger pull @ 6.5 foot pounds of pull each time it is FULLY RELEASED back to the original position, or @ 8.5 foot pounds of pull when it is not released, but held back after cycle, and then brought back to 1/2 way between fully reset (original position) and fully back. (look up DAK and Sig).
    this pistol has a clipped hammer and no decocker on the side.
     
  18. USEBOTHHANDS

    USEBOTHHANDS New Member

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    they have stainless steel, Nitron coated slides with an anodized aluminum lower frame.
     
  19. Tuco

    Tuco New Member

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    The BHP looks really nice. I find myself hoping I like it, and I would want it in gun-metal blue. Then I realize I could get an AR-15 for that. At least an AK. Hmmm. What to do?! I think I would get the AK. I will see about holding the hi-power though.
     
  20. sweeper22

    sweeper22 New Member

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    Sigs and Brownings are best bought used on trading forums or through gun shows. I've seen various Sig P226/228/229 (pick whatever frame suits you, they're all outstanding guns) for $500-650 in oustanding condition. I recently found myself torn between a P228 and BHP Practical at recent gun show. Both appeared excellent (used), both were $499. I went with the Browning.

    Personally, I'll take the "nearly new" Sig/BHP and keep an extra $300 in my wallet. CZs on the other hand, are offered at pretty competitive prices brand new...and the excellent used ones I've seen bring pretty close to the brand new price.