[Seanml89]

Greetings,

Thanks for looking. Im here asking for advice for my first firearm. Im going to be moving into my first place with my girlfriend in 3 months back to a city thats known for crime and drugs. In the past me and my family have been in 3 armed home invasion robbery's 1 of which shots were fired (shooting up our house, killing my 110 pound german shephard, and robbing my father of very high 5 figures). Me and my father moved out of the city because of the crime, now Im moving back to take over the family business.

Im looking for 1 long gun or maybe 2 to sit inside my house in case of an emergency. This would be my first gun even owned or even fired. Im looking twords a Mossberg 590 or a newer Ruger mini-14. I like the Mossberg because shotguns are known for home protection and you cant really go wrong and with buck shots you cant miss. What I dont like is that the 590 only holds 9 shells, like most shotguns. Also, i dont like the safety you have to hold up to rack it. I havnt looked much into remington

I like the mini-14 for many reasons. Its a ruger, it shoots .223's, and it can hold up to 30 shots and uses a clip so its faster to reload then any shotgun. Also I could keep loaded clips with it. I could get the semi automatic version which is also a plus.

Thanks for any help

 

[orangello]

I don't know as much about the models & such as most of these guys, but i would vote for the shotty. The ammunition is really cheap & it is harder to miss your target(possibly negating the need for a 30 round mag).

You might consider #4 shot instead of buckshot, it'll spread out a bit more & isn't supposed to go through walls as easily (good for apt).

On a side note, perhaps some of those nice ornamental steel bar doors would be a good way to slow down the home invader-types (use steel frame & prof. install).

 

[Seanml89]

Yeah living in an apartment i definitely dont want anything going through the walls and killing grandma's cat. That could be a problem with the .223' but same with a shotgun shells.

About the doors, my old house in the city was like a fortress. We had 9 security cameras, alarms that would go off if glass windows break, your adverage pass code alarm too, AND 3 "10,000 pound doors". Problem is they are expensive, if i remember they were 2k a peice. I was thinking one of those locks that puts the medal bar across the door they seem like a good way to stop anyone from kicking it in.

I was thiking of keeping a firearm under my couch, and one in my bedroom. The thing is, when the come in they have their guns pointed.

 

[Dillinger]

Well, first off, Welcome to the Forum.

I don't want you to get the wrong first impression, the guys here are all really good about helping new folks out, but your post is going to get torn apart a bit. Don't take offense, the guys are just going to try and help you out by pointing out some flaws in your theory.

Okay, if you have never fired a weapon before - you need to seriously reconsider these choices. You need to go to a range, rent a few pistols, and maybe a couple of .22 rifles, and get a feel for what fits you - not what you THINK is going to fit.

Shotguns are considered long guns, and as such, probably have to have a minimum of a 16" barrel where you live. Check your local laws, but that is pretty standard. Now, add the action and a decent stock and you are looking at, probably, close to 30 inches of plastic and steel in your hands.

Take a 2 x 4, or a broom handle, or whatever you have available, that is around 30" and try to move from room to room, through doorways, and around corners with that thing in front of you. Not the easiest, nor the safest choice.

Also, buckshot will do serious damage to a human, but it will also over penetrate and could smash through drywall within the house itself. You could be putting your significant other, or your neighbors, at risk..... and that comes with liability.

The mini-14 is a horrible choice because it's a piece of crap rifle that has more drawbacks than advantages, but a .223 rifle round will DEFINITELY go through walls and easily over penetrate, see liability above.

The first thing I would suggest is making your home less of a target. Bright lights on motion sensors, a dog if you can have one where you live, an alarm sign, even if you don't have the service, as a deterent. Cut 2 x 2's to put in your sliding windows and have outside lights, and inside lights, on during the night.

After the place is more of a fortress and you have actually spent some time at a range and are more familiar with weapons in general:

I would suggest a good, double action, pistol in greater than a 9mm for your first choice. Something that both you, and the female unit, are comfortable with. A pistol will clear a house much faster than a short gun, or a rifle, and it will come to bear on a target, God forbid if you ever have to do it, faster than any long gun.

With the right rounds, you can insure massive wound trauma without the chance of over penetration....

JD

 

[Jonny4089]

I have a mossberg 590. I always load it with a 2-1 ratio of 000 buckshot and hollow point slugs. The buck will take down anyone and the slugs will blow through a car and everything in between. I'd highly recommend it. The action is smooth and its a very tough shotgun. It has a grip load of accessories too.

 

[rugermike]

Good Advice

Well, first off, Welcome to the Forum.

I don't want you to get the wrong first impression, the guys here are all really good about helping new folks out, but your post is going to get torn apart a bit. Don't take offense, the guys are just going to try and help you out by pointing out some flaws in your theory.

Okay, if you have never fired a weapon before - you need to seriously reconsider these choices. You need to go to a range, rent a few pistols, and maybe a couple of .22 rifles, and get a feel for what fits you - not what you THINK is going to fit.

Shotguns are considered long guns, and as such, probably have to have a minimum of a 16" barrel where you live. Check your local laws, but that is pretty standard. Now, add the action and a decent stock and you are looking at, probably, close to 30 inches of plastic and steel in your hands.

Take a 2 x 4, or a broom handle, or whatever you have available, that is around 30" and try to move from room to room, through doorways, and around corners with that thing in front of you. Not the easiest, nor the safest choice.

Also, buckshot will do serious damage to a human, but it will also over penetrate and could smash through drywall within the house itself. You could be putting your significant other, or your neighbors, at risk..... and that comes with liability.

The mini-14 is a horrible choice because it's a piece of crap rifle that has more drawbacks than advantages, but a .223 rifle round will DEFINITELY go through walls and easily over penetrate, see liability above.

The first thing I would suggest is making your home less of a target. Bright lights on motion sensors, a dog if you can have one where you live, an alarm sign, even if you don't have the service, as a deterent. Cut 2 x 2's to put in your sliding windows and have outside lights, and inside lights, on during the night.

After the place is more of a fortress and you have actually spent some time at a range and are more familiar with weapons in general:

I would suggest a good, double action, pistol in greater than a 9mm for your first choice. Something that both you, and the female unit, are comfortable with. A pistol will clear a house much faster than a short gun, or a rifle, and it will come to bear on a target, God forbid if you ever have to do it, faster than any long gun.

With the right rounds, you can insure massive wound trauma without the chance of over penetration....

JD

I agree and would like to offer alittle more. If you are not use to a firearm, as you seem to imply, PLEASE Don't think just because you have a firearm you are the PROTECTOR. That will get you and yours KILLED. Especially if it is as bad as you say it is in this area. Get somewhere and get some training in personal protection and self defense as neccessary? I teach alot of firsttime shooters how to shoot a firearm in differnet situations, including Self Defense(which by the way is the last resort to kill another person). Find a local teacher and or gun shop that can help you out. Again we aren't being hard A****, but want you to learn the whole story? JMO

 

[Seanml89]

Jd thanks a million

Problem is i cant own a pistol, im only 19 you have to be 21 here to buy a handgun. I know what you mean tho, making it around with a 30inch hunk of heavy metal isnt easy im sure. As much as I would practice when i got it still isnt promising anything, especially in the heat of the moment. My my family business we used to have an 18inch mossberg riot shotgun and it was akword to hold, i didnt like the pistol grip

I have 3 months till I move. I havnt been to many gun stores because right now i live in a beach town so there isnt many. But the ones i have been to with ranges inside only allow pistols i think. I know they dont let you shoot shotguns. Im gunna go rent a rifle and shoot off some rounds.

I just want the feeling of safety in my own house, until youve had an incident you cant immagine what its like, or maybe you can. I know im being an amature forum member and getting all philosophical but i just cant wait to get a gun. Its something thats just in americans blood you know.

 

[Seanml89]

Rugermike i agree man, im no billy badass. If I buy a weapon im not telling anybody but my girlfriend because she lives there. The last thing i want to do it shoot somebody, anybody, and im not buying a gun just to shoot at someone if they try to rob me. I want to avoid situations at almost all cost. Im a huge secutiry bluff, i know you guys can relate.

I was thinking a security camera in the hallway pointing to the entrance, and one inside the apt looking at the front door. Wireless cameras are pretty cheap and accessable recently so im thinking of having a smaller monitor mounted on my all behind my tv playin the security cameras constantly. One in the bedroom too.

Im a really paranoid kid, but i have self controll on the same hand.

 

[dnthmn2004]

I think JD said it best. You should consider a handgun for home protection. Seriously do a practice sweep of your house, once with a broom handle or something that is about 30" long, then do the same with a toy gun or something resembling a handgun.
Long guns typically have ammo that is fast and light, and handguns have ammo that is slow and heavy. Double taps are also much easier with a handgun.

These tests should give you plenty of convincing info if your still stubborn about a long rifle for home defense.

The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1
The Box O' Truth #1 - The Original Box O' Truth - Page 1

 

[sarg]

For home defense get some range time under your belt....... experience counts.

I suggest a shotgun over a pistol. You can grip it tightly and are less likely to drop it. Yes... I said drop it. Seen it happen.... actually did it.

I also suggest an autoloader such as a 11-87 Remington over any pump. Again .... the dynamics under stress is the reason.

 

[Seanml89]

Im going to look for a range to rent a rifle and shoot some. Im just nervous because i dont know the gunshop and range edict you know?

 

[dnthmn2004]

Just follow good firearms safety, be polite, and ask questions if you don't know. Most people you will find at a range will be like us, and are more than willing to help.

 

[Seanml89]

After searching for a few hours, this seems like the best place i cant find.

JD Defense Home Page

Searching for ranges on google is a pain in the ***. Even the range search engines im not sure about. I think im gunna call this palce tomorrow and ask about rifle lessons

 

[J33Nelson]

Magnum Research Magnum Lite rifle. If it is good enough for Israeli snipers it should be good enough for home defense. It shoots a cheep round so you will not break the bank buying ammo and you will not have to worry about over penetration with the .22LR. You can also get high capacity mags and it is lighter and easier to handle than the Mini 14.

 

[dnthmn2004]

The 22LR, 17HMR, and 22WMR is for hunting squirrels and terminating burrowing mammals. NOT for protecting you and your loved ones. Don't get anything less than a 40 caliber handgun.

 

[Seanml89]

yeah I dont know about using a 22. I want something with more stopping power then that. Ive seen crooks that look like they take .22 shots for breakfast. I know, I know, ive heard "They bounce around in your skull" but ehhh.

Butttt i will be living in an apartment i can bet the walls are thin..

 

[Seanml89]

Before this thread dies and just for the heck of it heres the wanted posted my cousin/manager of fam business made up from the 3rd home invasion we had. This was taken from the security cameras at my house. They didnt get all the way in this time, but they did beat my 62 year old father over the head with that POS pistol in his right hand sending him to get 8 stiches. I dont live at the house, and my father was there on vacation. I cant view the video from my current house, but they can from the store.

home invader picture by assault12 - Photobucket

 

[Shingles44]

One firearm you may want to consider is the Kel-Tec Sub 2000. It is a small, foldable pistol caliber (9mm *yawn* or .40 S&W) carbine. Won't over penetrate walls the way a rifle would, faster to reload than a shotgun, and is smaller and more manuverable than most rifles/shotguns. And as an added bonus, when you are old enough to get a pistol you can get your Sub 2000 setup for most populas handgun magazines. Glock, S&W 58, Sig, Ruger, etc...

 

[J33Nelson]

"Butttt i will be living in an apartment i can bet the walls are thin.."

Exactly!!!! I have lived in some apartments where the walls are paper thin. The last thing you need in life is to take a shot at an intruder, miss, have it go through the wall and strike your neighbor's new born. I guarantee the judge will not care that you were aiming for an intruder and you will spend the rest of your life in a jail cell.

If you were living in a house i would suggest something more powerful than a 22 but in an apartment building you really have to be careful.

99.9% of intruders wont care if you are shooting 22 bullets or 12.7mm bullets at them. At the sound of the first shot they are gone!

 

[Seanml89]

Thank you all for your advice, Ive been looking into .22's specifically the ruger 10/22. Maybe with a folding stock something like this

Butler Creek Stainless Steel Folding Stock for Ruger 10/22

but i read a review that said it wasnt a perfect fit for their ruger 10/22. That makes me a little nervous.