Interesting; it seems the censors missed that bit.
That was me and I stand by it.Now...which member was arguing that .223 would consistantly remain in a childs body from distances of 10' to 15'..
Are you saying the close range bullet wouldn't even penetrate the windshield?If you would like to see an interesting velocity phenomena, shoot at an auto windshield at 10 feet with M193. The bullet will disintegrate on the windshield. Shoot the same round at the same type windshield at 150 yards. The bullet has slowed down a considerable amount and will penetrate both front and rear glass leaving a caliber size hole.
LOC...That was me and I stand by it.
At that distance the round is still traveling at over 3200 FPS. At that velocity, The front half of the jacket ruptures on impact and begins fragmenting. The round generally breaks into two parts at the cannelure, and both halves begin tumbling. It is unusual for either half to exit a human body. This is M193 ball.
Obviously, M855 ball with the steel penetrator insert will exit a body.
This is not just my personal observation, but the observation of the U.S. Army wound ballistics laboratory, and numerous law enforcement agencies across the country.
If you would like to see an interesting velocity phenomena, shoot at an auto windshield at 10 feet with M193. The bullet will disintegrate on the windshield. Shoot the same round at the same type windshield at 150 yards. The bullet has slowed down a considerable amount and will penetrate both front and rear glass leaving a caliber size hole.
Those stats are interesting and all but I've personally shot hanging pig carcases at close range with commercially available 5.56 and .233 out of my 16" AR and "consistanty" saw flesh flying out the back of them. I ran this little test looking for a cartride that would "consistantly" NOT over penetrate bucause I was toying with the notion of making my AR a "primary" home defense weapon.
My conclusion was that overpenetration of dozens of different loads made it a poor choice for a home of 6 familly memebers where O.P. could injure one of my own...
I'm certian some rounds "could" stay in the bodies at such close range but there is no way they could "all" stay in the bodies...
thanks for the tip...TAP was not out when I did my test but I think I'll stick with my Sig 226 .40 and my Rem 870 w/00 Buck and save the AR for a situation where I may need to get "surgical".I did the windshield test for my department using an older 20 inch M16 and M193 ball. This was before M855 was available.
I was out of the military before the M16 was ever issued so have no personal experience there.
I would be very interested in actual PM results from the ME in this case. While I might well believe that 5.56 rounds did not penetrate, I am fairly certain that .40 and 9MM would ALL completely penetrate small bodies.
I will reserve judgement until we find out what kind of .223 ammo was used, if indeed a .223 was used at all.
I guess I assumed he was using M193 ball, and you probably assumed he was using M855.
We may both be mistaken.
BTW, that round you were looking for in .233 exists. It's the Hornady 55 grain TAP.
Test the TAP if ya get a chance. Betcha it will penetrate less than 00 buck!thanks for the tip...TAP was not out when I did my test but I think I'll stick with my Sig 226 .40 and my Rem 870 w/00 Buck and save the AR for a situation where I may need to get "surgical".
It's good to end on a happy note.Typical FTF conversation:
OP... "There was a misleading news report from the MSM."
Followed by detailed charts and debate of terminal ballistics.
Ended by. "We should somehow turn this thread into a way to murder bears."
How dare you!orangello said:I think bears would make excellent test targets for the overpenetration test, but we would need to test on all of the various species of bears available: polar bear test, brown bear test, kodiak brown bear test, common black bear test, not to even mention the bears of other countries (yes, Pandas of course).