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Now...which member was arguing that .223 would consistantly remain in a childs body from distances of 10' to 15'...


The Big Sandy Hook Newtown Lie: No Children Killed with Rifles – No Rifles in School – Lanza Used Handguns


January 19, 2013
By Maggie


www.maggiesnotebook.com/2013/01/the-big-sandy-hook... - Cached



inShare.
NBC is reporting that Adam Lanza did not take rifles inside Sandy Hook Elementary School. He did not use a rifle, deemed an “assault weapon” by the administration and media to kill and wound. To repeat, no rifles were found inside the school. Lanza reportedly had four handguns with him. How many of those handguns were used in the killings isn’t known, or at least not included in this report. See the video below. IMPORTANT UPDATE 12:50 pm CST: A reader directed me to this State of Connecticut Update, released yesterday, January 18, 2013, which contradicts the story of no rifles inside Sandy Hook Elementary. I have attempted to find a retraction of the NBC report you’ll read/view below, and have not found it, which doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Readers, if you know of a retraction by NBC or any mainstream media pointing out that Williams was incorrect – that a rifle was used inside the school building, please send an email or drop a link in comments. I did find a video of the/a coroner saying the children were killed with a long rifle.


Adam Lanza

Kyle Becker at Independent Journal Review:


The correspondent [in the video below] makes it clear over and over again that he confirmed this information with federal and state officials. Now, a lot of media reports contradict this one, but somebody’s lying. The report that an ‘AR-15-style’ assault rifle was in the trunk of murderer Adam Lanza’s car is up for dispute as well. If one examines footage from police breaking into Lanza’s car, one sees police clearing a round from a “long gun of some type” that does not appear to be ‘AR-15 style’ or ‘assault-style.’

Whether or not the mainstream media are intentionally spreading disinformation about the Sandy Hook elementary tragedy, there is one thing for certain: not only are violent crime rates at a modern low and going down, but only 323 homicides were committed by rifles in 2011. That includes hunting rifles, assault rifles, military style rifles, semi-automatic rifles and whatever label one comes up with, regardless of magazine or clip capacity.

In a nation of 311 million people, the odds of being killed by a rifle is about one homicide per million people, which is far less than the odds of being murdered by a blunt object. (Read more at the link above)

Partial snippet transcription of the NBC Today Show video added as an UPDATE at 1pm CST 1-19-13, Pete Williams, NBC News Justice Correspondent, introduced by Matt Lauer, airing on December 15, 2012:


There is some new information this morning from a couple of Federal officials and State officials. They say now that there were actually four handguns recovered inside the school, not just two as we were initially told. Four handguns and apparently only handguns that were taken into the school…

The report goes to say that an assault-style AR-15 was found in Lanza’s car. NBC is quoting State and Federal officials, yet, if you follow the link above to yesterday’s State of Connecticut announcement, a rifle was found inside the school.







Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

See the video of the “long gun” here.


No “Assault Rifles” used at Sandy Hook Elementary, Newtown, Connecticut Murders (video)
Linked at BadBlue – the baddest news on the planet – thank you!
 

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I was calling BS on the "assault weapon" claim as soon as I watched the coroners interview. The guy was a wreck, nervous and laughing. Completely inapropriate behavior given the circumstances.

...and he did say they were shot with a "long gun" but when asked if the rounds stayed in the bodies, his answer of YES was the most insane diatribe of public speaking I've ever seen?

He TOTALY reminded me of American POW videos taken by there captors from Vietnam to the first Gulf War...He appeard to be under distress and stating things he knew to be false.

I'm sure he was aware of the millions of US Military Vet's who know full well that 5.56 or .223 does "NOT" stay in the body from distances of 10' to 15'.

We need to be pushing an investigation of this cororner and get to the bottom of "who" told him to say it and "why" he complied...lied.

Tack
 

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I've been saying this since I watched the coroner speak. I think the conspiracy here is using this to push an assault weapons ban when it wasn't what was used in the tragedy.
 

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Now...which member was arguing that .223 would consistantly remain in a childs body from distances of 10' to 15'..
That was me and I stand by it.

At that distance the round is still traveling at over 3200 FPS. At that velocity, The front half of the jacket ruptures on impact and begins fragmenting. The round generally breaks into two parts at the cannelure, and both halves begin tumbling. It is unusual for either half to exit a human body. This is M193 ball.

Obviously, M855 ball with the steel penetrator insert will exit a body.

This is not just my personal observation, but the observation of the U.S. Army wound ballistics laboratory, and numerous law enforcement agencies across the country.

If you would like to see an interesting velocity phenomena, shoot at an auto windshield at 10 feet with M193. The bullet will disintegrate on the windshield. Shoot the same round at the same type windshield at 150 yards. The bullet has slowed down a considerable amount and will penetrate both front and rear glass leaving a caliber size hole.
 

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What kinda rounds was he using? Still, I there would be hardly any chance for it to stay in such a small body.
 

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If you would like to see an interesting velocity phenomena, shoot at an auto windshield at 10 feet with M193. The bullet will disintegrate on the windshield. Shoot the same round at the same type windshield at 150 yards. The bullet has slowed down a considerable amount and will penetrate both front and rear glass leaving a caliber size hole.
Are you saying the close range bullet wouldn't even penetrate the windshield?

I do believe in the quick fragmentation at close range. I even saw that on mythbusters, but although it's breaking up faster at faster speeds, I just don't see how it wouldn't penetrate the front windshield?
 

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That was me and I stand by it.

At that distance the round is still traveling at over 3200 FPS. At that velocity, The front half of the jacket ruptures on impact and begins fragmenting. The round generally breaks into two parts at the cannelure, and both halves begin tumbling. It is unusual for either half to exit a human body. This is M193 ball.

Obviously, M855 ball with the steel penetrator insert will exit a body.

This is not just my personal observation, but the observation of the U.S. Army wound ballistics laboratory, and numerous law enforcement agencies across the country.

If you would like to see an interesting velocity phenomena, shoot at an auto windshield at 10 feet with M193. The bullet will disintegrate on the windshield. Shoot the same round at the same type windshield at 150 yards. The bullet has slowed down a considerable amount and will penetrate both front and rear glass leaving a caliber size hole.
LOC...

Those stats are interesting and all but I've personally shot hanging pig carcases at close range with commercially available 5.56 and .233 out of my 16" AR and "consistanty" saw flesh flying out the back of them. I ran this little test looking for a cartride that would "consistantly" NOT over penetrate bucause I was toying with the notion of making my AR a "primary" home defense weapon.
My conclusion was that overpenetration of dozens of different loads made it a poor choice for a home of 6 familly memebers where O.P. could injure one of my own...

I'm certian some rounds "could" stay in the bodies at such close range but there is no way they could "all" stay in the bodies...
 

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LOC...

Those stats are interesting and all but I've personally shot hanging pig carcases at close range with commercially available 5.56 and .233 out of my 16" AR and "consistanty" saw flesh flying out the back of them. I ran this little test looking for a cartride that would "consistantly" NOT over penetrate bucause I was toying with the notion of making my AR a "primary" home defense weapon.
My conclusion was that overpenetration of dozens of different loads made it a poor choice for a home of 6 familly memebers where O.P. could injure one of my own...

I'm certian some rounds "could" stay in the bodies at such close range but there is no way they could "all" stay in the bodies...


I did the windshield test for my department using an older 20 inch M16 and M193 ball. This was before M855 was available.

I was out of the military before the M16 was ever issued so have no personal experience there.

I would be very interested in actual PM results from the ME in this case. While I might well believe that 5.56 rounds did not penetrate, I am fairly certain that .40 and 9MM would ALL completely penetrate small bodies.

I will reserve judgement until we find out what kind of .223 ammo was used, if indeed a .223 was used at all.

I guess I assumed he was using M193 ball, and you probably assumed he was using M855.

We may both be mistaken.:p

BTW, that round you were looking for in .233 exists. It's the Hornady 55 grain TAP.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I did the windshield test for my department using an older 20 inch M16 and M193 ball. This was before M855 was available.

I was out of the military before the M16 was ever issued so have no personal experience there.

I would be very interested in actual PM results from the ME in this case. While I might well believe that 5.56 rounds did not penetrate, I am fairly certain that .40 and 9MM would ALL completely penetrate small bodies.

I will reserve judgement until we find out what kind of .223 ammo was used, if indeed a .223 was used at all.

I guess I assumed he was using M193 ball, and you probably assumed he was using M855.

We may both be mistaken.:p

BTW, that round you were looking for in .233 exists. It's the Hornady 55 grain TAP.
thanks for the tip...TAP was not out when I did my test but I think I'll stick with my Sig 226 .40 and my Rem 870 w/00 Buck and save the AR for a situation where I may need to get "surgical". ;)
 

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thanks for the tip...TAP was not out when I did my test but I think I'll stick with my Sig 226 .40 and my Rem 870 w/00 Buck and save the AR for a situation where I may need to get "surgical". ;)
Test the TAP if ya get a chance. Betcha it will penetrate less than 00 buck!:p:p
 

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Can anyone provide backup for their claims on penetration/lack thereof? I see lot's of claims made on pages but unless there is some sort of "real" test with controls and equipment like the guys over at luckygunner.com provide on a pretty regular basis I am going to call BS on the underpenetration. Every law enforcement agency I have talked to or been a part of has had concerns about overpenetration and this was NEVER addressed.
 

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I think bears would make excellent test targets for the overpenetration test, but we would need to test on all of the various species of bears available: polar bear test, brown bear test, kodiak brown bear test, common black bear test, not to even mention the bears of other countries (yes, Pandas of course).
 

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Typical FTF conversation:

OP... "There was a misleading news report from the MSM."

"Conspiracy, conspiracy!!"

Followed by detailed charts and debate of terminal ballistics.

Ended by. "We should somehow turn this thread into a way to murder bears."
 

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Typical FTF conversation:

OP... "There was a misleading news report from the MSM."

"Conspiracy, conspiracy!!"

Followed by detailed charts and debate of terminal ballistics.

Ended by. "We should somehow turn this thread into a way to murder bears."
It's good to end on a happy note. :D
 

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orangello said:
I think bears would make excellent test targets for the overpenetration test, but we would need to test on all of the various species of bears available: polar bear test, brown bear test, kodiak brown bear test, common black bear test, not to even mention the bears of other countries (yes, Pandas of course).
How dare you! :mad:
 
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