Firearms Talk banner

1 - 20 of 169 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The Mini-14 suffers from having a super-thin barrel that is flexed upward by pressure from the recoil spring pressing the slide against the piston.

Before firing, the barrel is "flexed up"...but as the bullet passes the gas port the barrel "whips" down with all associated oscillations.

THIS is why the Mini-14 has a reputation for throwing bullets all over the place.

The solution?

Squirt some RTV Silicone Sealant into the cam-groove of the operating slide...where it presses up against the bolt's cam lug...BEHIND it. What this does is shift all pressure from the barrel piston to the bolt cam lug. NOW the barrel is completely untensioned before and after the bullet passes the gas port. PLUS, the pressure of the RTV Sealant insures maximum bolt locking force prior to the shot.

The result? Your groups will suddenly shrink without an expensive barrel replacement solution.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
I have a Mini-14 Ranch rifle in stainless, serial # 188-50XXX, made in 1991..it would never shoot 100 yard groups less than about 2"..I went to a gunshow and bought a stainless combo flashhider, front sight, bayo lug that tightly slipped over the barrel after the factory front sight was removed..well it now shoots Federal M193 ammo to less than 1" center-to-center groups all the time..evidently the extra weight at the end of the barrel toned down the barrel vibrations perfectly..do not know who made the combo part but I do know that the 1994 Assault Weapns law put the maker out of business due to the "evil" flashhider and bayo lug..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I have a Mini-14 Ranch rifle in stainless, serial # 188-50XXX, made in 1991..it would never shoot 100 yard groups less than about 2"..I went to a gunshow and bought a stainless combo flashhider, front sight, bayo lug that tightly slipped over the barrel after the factory front sight was removed..well it now shoots Federal M193 ammo to less than 1" center-to-center groups all the time..evidently the extra weight at the end of the barrel toned down the barrel vibrations perfectly..do not know who made the combo part but I do know that the 1994 Assault Weapns law put the maker out of business due to the "evil" flashhider and bayo lug..
The weight added to the muzzle end helped to dampen oscillations...and is certainly a valid approach! If Ruger really wanted to make the Mini-14 bulletproof they would have long ago re-engineered it with a substantially thicker barrel, OR simply insert a rubber/polymer spacer into the slide groove that causes all recoil spring weight to be transferred to the bolt's closing lug...thus leaving the barrel UN-TENSIONED. Actually, BOTH approaches would result in outstanding groups!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,263 Posts
The weight added to the muzzle end helped to dampen oscillations...and is certainly a valid approach! If Ruger really wanted to make the Mini-14 bulletproof they would have long ago re-engineered it with a substantially thicker barrel, OR simply insert a rubber/polymer spacer into the slide groove that causes all recoil spring weight to be transferred to the bolt's closing lug...thus leaving the barrel UN-TENSIONED. Actually, BOTH approaches would result in outstanding groups!
that's an interesting accuracy improvement idea, and i'm not sure I have heard it before.

have you experimented with this on your own mini? what was the apx. amount your groups shrank? did you collect any before/after data? do you have any targets to present?

could we get a pic of this insert? (or did you use the sealant?)

as you likely know, about 10 years ago, ruger did go with a ticker barrel. it seems to have overall improved "out of the box" accuracy to what most would call "decent." there is also the target mini with an even thicker barrel (and a dampener to bring the mini to MOA status). are saying an even thicker barrel should be considered on the standard mini? I imagine that would drive prices up, and i'm not sure how much accuracy improvement you might see.

thanks...this really is interesting. we're always looking for an edge to get our minis shooting a bit better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RJF22553

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,263 Posts
I have a Mini-14 Ranch rifle in stainless, serial # 188-50XXX, made in 1991..it would never shoot 100 yard groups less than about 2"..I went to a gunshow and bought a stainless combo flashhider, front sight, bayo lug that tightly slipped over the barrel after the factory front sight was removed..well it now shoots Federal M193 ammo to less than 1" center-to-center groups all the time..evidently the extra weight at the end of the barrel toned down the barrel vibrations perfectly..do not know who made the combo part but I do know that the 1994 Assault Weapns law put the maker out of business due to the "evil" flashhider and bayo lug..
you have one of the best "non target/modified" shooting minis that I have heard of (especially with bulk ammo?). sub MOA pencil barreled mini don't just grow on trees, y'know! :)

PLEASE look at the sticky titled "river rat's shooting challenge." read over the rules, and PLEASE consider trying it and posting your honest results. it requires 5 round groups on target for a 2" group. looking through the thread, you will see that many found it challenging (including myself).

heck, every range I have ever been to...I have only personally witnessed one AR print consistent 1" (MOA) groups on target (this was a target barrel AR with hand loads). just my experience, but to be fair....I don't shoot in competitions.

I would love to see your mini print a few 5 round 1" groups on target @ 100 yards. you might get a few nice offers for that mini on this board! :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,740 Posts
I have a Mini-14 Ranch rifle in stainless, serial # 188-50XXX, made in 1991..it would never shoot 100 yard groups less than about 2"..I went to a gunshow and bought a stainless combo flashhider, front sight, bayo lug that tightly slipped over the barrel after the factory front sight was removed..well it now shoots Federal M193 ammo to less than 1" center-to-center groups all the time..evidently the extra weight at the end of the barrel toned down the barrel vibrations perfectly..do not know who made the combo part but I do know that the 1994 Assault Weapns law put the maker out of business due to the "evil" flashhider and bayo lug..
Gunguy, I have a 181GB Mini, built in 1977. The GB has the factory flash hider and front sight/bayo lug on its skinny barrel. There seems to be something to the beliefs some have about the flash hider and sight/bayo lug improving on accuracy by reducing the barrel whip through, essentially counterbalancing the whip. It is as it left the factory other than buffers fore and aft and a funky side-mounted P-rail (no bedding or trigger work, no strut, etc.). With my impatient shooting from a bi-pod and no bag, it does about 1.5-2" or so at 50 yards, using PMC Bronze .223 and a 3-9X32 scope set at 3-power. Were I to concentrate on breathing and shoot from a bench on a bag or two, I suspect it would do better. As it is, it seems to be more accurate than I am...:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
All I know is that it works great on my Mini-14..and at a much lower cost than a full -blown accuracy job..anyone interested in a pic of my combo front sight, flashhider, bayo lug slip-on unit should PM me their email through this site...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,263 Posts
All I know is that it works great on my Mini-14..and at a much lower cost than a full -blown accuracy job..anyone interested in a pic of my combo front sight, flashhider, bayo lug slip-on unit should PM me their email through this site...
you should be able to post a pic here or on the gallery thread, whichever you prefer. you might need a 10 post count to put up a pic though. just go to "manage attachments" below where you post and choose the source you want to upload your pic from.

some minis shoot better than others out of the box, sometimes it goes that way. my 580 mini is a pretty darn good shooter, but from the sound of it, nowhere near as good as yours.

would you consider posting some pics of targets? or even better, trying the shooting challenge in the sticky thread above? its always good to see the results of a great shooting mini.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,263 Posts
Gunguy, I have a 181GB Mini, built in 1977. The GB has the factory flash hider and front sight/bayo lug on its skinny barrel. There seems to be something to the beliefs some have about the flash hider and sight/bayo lug improving on accuracy by reducing the barrel whip through, essentially counterbalancing the whip. It is as it left the factory other than buffers fore and aft and a funky side-mounted P-rail (no bedding or trigger work, no strut, etc.). With my impatient shooting from a bi-pod and no bag, it does about 1.5-2" or so at 50 yards, using PMC Bronze .223 and a 3-9X32 scope set at 3-power. Were I to concentrate on breathing and shoot from a bench on a bag or two, I suspect it would do better. As it is, it seems to be more accurate than I am...:)
this seems pretty in line with a good shooting mini. @100 I assume you could put together 2-3"..perhaps even sub 2" groups depending on your skill and other factors. my mini, with my best shooting, will consistently shoot 1.5-2.5" groups @100 with the best factory match ammo I can buy.

when other shooters put up their honest groups, I have seen a little better and a little worse than that....i'm speaking of averages...there are consistent mini MOA shooters out there.....check master p's shooting for example.

lots of claims of "MOA all day" minis....not too much proof of it in my time shooting. as said, for all the AR MOA claims, I haven't seen much of that either. consistent 5+ shot group MOA shooting isn't all that common on any range I have ever been to. from my perspective, MOA requires a great gun, great ammo, and a consistently very good marksman.

no disrespect to you gunguy...I believe you, I would just like to see you put up those MOA groups for the rest of us mini fans to brag on! :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: RJF22553

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,135 Posts
I had a mini 14 that I bought in 1980 at MONTGOMERY WARDS and picked it up at the "loading dock".
it cost me ...if I remember correctly $119.
Mine had a ROLLER bearing on the bolt like an M1A or M14 and it shot out of the box any ammo at 1 to 2 inches.
Like a moron, I sold it as it was a "safe queen"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,263 Posts
I had a mini 14 that I bought in 1980 at MONTGOMERY WARDS and picked it up at the "loading dock".
it cost me ...if I remember correctly $119.
Mine had a ROLLER bearing on the bolt like an M1A or M14 and it shot out of the box any ammo at 1 to 2 inches.
Like a moron, I sold it as it was a "safe queen"
don't feel too bad...spend a little time hunting it down and maybe you could buy it back for about $500. :p

I have a couple of selling regrets as well....part of the addiction i'm afraid.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,263 Posts
hey gunguy (and any other posters)! if you're interested, here is the link to both the mini shooting challenge and the mini gallery for pics. I hope you use both! :)

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f95/riverrat68s-mini-shooting-challenge-66313/

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f95/mini-gallery-46645/

I have a Mini-14 Ranch rifle in stainless, serial # 188-50XXX, made in 1991..it would never shoot 100 yard groups less than about 2"..I went to a gunshow and bought a stainless combo flashhider, front sight, bayo lug that tightly slipped over the barrel after the factory front sight was removed..well it now shoots Federal M193 ammo to less than 1" center-to-center groups all the time..evidently the extra weight at the end of the barrel toned down the barrel vibrations perfectly..do not know who made the combo part but I do know that the 1994 Assault Weapns law put the maker out of business due to the "evil" flashhider and bayo lug..

��
All I know is that it works great on my Mini-14..and at a much lower cost than a full -blown accuracy job..anyone interested in a pic of my combo front sight, flashhider, bayo lug slip-on unit should PM me their email through this site...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,534 Posts
This sounds like some of the post on the Perfect Union Forums?:D The early Minni 14 offerings suffered from poor quality barrels design and bedding. The Ruger Mini accuracy problems were so great Ruger was forced to shut down for 18 months. This occurred around 2008. The new Mini-14 is supposed to be better? :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,263 Posts
This sounds like some of the post on the Perfect Union Forums?:D The early Minni 14 offerings suffered from poor quality barrels design and bedding. The Ruger Mini accuracy problems were so great Ruger was forced to shut down for 18 months. This occurred around 2008. The new Mini-14 is supposed to be better? :confused:
the older minis also apparently suffered from many manufacturing inconsistencies..thus why there are reports of older minis shooting 6-8" groups, and others shooting near MOA. ruger shut down to create consistency in the manufacturing and improved the barrel.

imo..overall...it seems the new minis are quite a bit better and more consistent in accuracy....but out of the box standard mini shooting MOA? I still think that'd be a mini unicorn? :confused: test results by accu-strut had the average out of box older mini shooting apx 4"...the average out of box new models shooting apx 2.5".

but as said....no matter what rifle....MOA groups are magically MUCH more common on firearm forums than at any actual range I have been to....

things that make you go hmmmm.....:p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,740 Posts
This sounds like some of the post on the Perfect Union Forums?:D The early Minni 14 offerings suffered from poor quality barrels design and bedding. The Ruger Mini accuracy problems were so great Ruger was forced to shut down for 18 months. This occurred around 2008. The new Mini-14 is supposed to be better? :confused:
Capt, there are several members of this forum also on PU, and RugerForum, so yeah, there will be some recurring/similar posts. Don't think there is a problem with that.

I have both an early (181-series, bought in 1980) and late-model (583, bought in 2016) Mini-14. Love them both and, yes, there are some changes over the years - most notably the barrel improvement. I never though my 181GB Mini as being inaccurate: it never failed to take down a silhouette pop-up target at 300 meters at an Army range, using irons. It has never failed me with any malfunctions/jams, is not bedded, doesn't have an Accustrut, and hasn't had a trigger job. It is pretty much as it left the factory in 1977. Is it an MOA shooter? Probably not, but it seems to be close (perhaps 3-4 MOA). It is certainly better than I am. It fills every desire I have for a light-weight carbine.

My newer 583 Tactical is a fine shooter, and I got it to give my 181GB a rest sometimes (it is my first firearm).

The general statement of "The early Minni 14 offerings suffered from poor quality barrels design and bedding." is not universal. The GBs seemed to have a bit better rep, possibly due to the flash hider and bayo lug. The barrel design is fine for the time. Bedding was not a carbine-like quality, but folks do it with good results. There are several members on this forum, PU, and RugerForum that get close to 1 MOA with their older skinny barrels, often (but not always) with a little tweaking. Others suffer terribly with stringers. Perhaps it is just the luck of the draw.

Ruger addressed the "issue" with a thicker barrel. Good on them! But the older Minis can be nicely modified at little expense to be close to 1 MOA guns, should one choose to go that route.

Just trying to avoid generalizations and internet myths regarding the older Minis and Minis in general. Some were good, some weren't. Pretty much like any firearm...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,932 Posts
the older minis also apparently suffered from many manufacturing inconsistencies..thus why there are reports of older minis shooting 6-8" groups, and others shooting near MOA. ruger shut down to create consistency in the manufacturing and improved the barrel.

imo..overall...it seems the new minis are quite a bit better and more consistent in accuracy....but out of the box standard mini shooting MOA? I still think that'd be a mini unicorn? :confused: test results by accu-strut had the average out of box older mini shooting apx 4"...the average out of box new models shooting apx 2.5".

but as said....no matter what rifle....MOA groups are magically MUCH more common on firearm forums than at any actual range I have been to....

things that make you go hmmmm.....:p
I belong to a small private place. Barely is anyone else ever there. Of the people who do show up, the one guy was trying to sight in a .308 with PPU and no bipod, rest, or bags. The other guys are handgun blasters.

The people who read, write, and participate in forums are a very small subset. Usually guys who have enough experience and confidance to speak up.

Yes, I have an AR that will consistently print 10-shot groups under 1" (0.75" - 875" is typical). Its a Bushmaster predator, fluted barrrel, Giessele trigger, and Weaver Super Slam 3-15x50. The upper I bought used. The lower is a PSA MOE stock.

I join a forum because I would rot at the range waiting for another knowledgeable enthusiast. I suspect thats a big part of WHY you find better groups on the internet than on the range. The other part is people dont understand statistics, and think 3 shot groups gives them useful information.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,534 Posts
The 1" group is very common at most ranges. The challenge these days are the Sub-Minute groups.:) I am a Prairie Dog shooter as are many Western rifleman. We have millions of acres of Public Lands to shoot on.
The mature P'Dog has about 4 Square inches of target. Any rifle that does not shoot 1" or less is useless. The Minni-14 is not considered a long range varmint rifle. That is not internet net gossip just facts.The old Minni-14 were not accurate. Why did Ruger halt production 18 Mos. to rework the rifle? :(
The Perfect Union Forum is the only forum where members are banned for eve saying an AR-15 is a rifle.:D But then PU's Mod calls himself "Who Farted"? Now who could take that forum serious?:confused:
 
1 - 20 of 169 Posts
Top