Accurate .308 bullets

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by THT, Mar 18, 2009.

  1. THT

    THT New Member

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    I've discovered I really enjoy long(er) distance shooting and have decided to start loading my own .308 rounds. I've been shooting 168gr FGMM through my Remington 700 5R however I've read there are much better bullets out there if one is willing to roll their own. Someone mentioned that I should look into Lapua Scenar bullets. Anyone have any first-hand experience with them? Or are there better bullets?
     
  2. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    the Federal GMM use Sierra 168gr Match King bullets they have more wins in compatition than any other mass produced bullet out there.

    If you want better long range (500+ yards) then look into the 175gr SMK or the laupa Which are great bullets I have never shot them because they are to pricy for me. Also look into Berger bullets.

    If you want the best bullets accuracy wise these are going to come from custom bullet manufactures. These guys use hand dies and are very miticulos in the way they make bullets. Here is a list of benchrest bullet makers. Many require 2,000 bullet orders and 50% nonrefundable deposit.
     

  3. THT

    THT New Member

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    Good info. My goal for this year is to start pinging steel at 600 yards and my FIL has offered to help me develop the right load for my rifle and that range. Do you know if there is an appreciable difference between the moly-coated Lapua bullets and the non-coated?
     
  4. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    No some say molly is good and some say molly is bad. I never liked mollied bullets because they always got my fingers too dirty.
     
  5. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    THT - What is the configuration of your rifle? Because 600 yards, at MOA, is a 6 inch target. Provided you don't have any excess outside influences ( mirage, windage, non-floated barrel, shooter induced error ) shooting FGMM should get you there no problem.

    Once you fire form your brass to your chamber, if you reload that brass, you are already going to get slightly better accuracy.

    If you have a factory barrel, changing that out for custom barrel will tighten up your groups considerably for less money than it's going to cost to get into reloading from scratch ( I don't know what your current reloading kit is ).

    I have a built .308 Tactical Rig in the projects section that shoots only FGGM and I shoot around 4" groups, on average, if the conditions are right and I am on my game. My best group at that distance came in just under 1/2moa - and that is without reloading....

    JD
     
  6. THT

    THT New Member

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    I might try a box of each and see for myself which works better.
    My rifle is a stock Remington 700 5R in .308. All the reloading gear is my FIL's and he's setup to load .308 so there won't be any added cost other than the bullets I provide.
     
  7. BILLYBOB44

    BILLYBOB44 Active Member

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    Neck size that .308 brass

    THT, to add to what Dillinger stated, about your fire formed brass for handloads--be sure that your friend has a .308 Neck Sizer die. If your brass is full length resized, it will be no more accurate than a factory load. These loads when done will be taylor made for your rifle, and may not even fit in another .308. You only need to size the neck, to hold the bullet tight. As stated before, you probably won't do better than Sierra Match bullets.:D
     
  8. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Where did you hear that horse hoocky? That is no more true than every gun like the same ammo. As for not fitting another 308 yes they will. unless your rifle has a very tight chamber that requires neck turning. Then we are talking about a custom barrel with a specific chamber that you and your gunsmith come up with.

    When loading the 308 you can neck size for 3, 4 or maybe 5 loading then you need to full length size them again. I have been loading for the 308 for 15 years. Never used a neck sizer and mine shooting anything I put in her to no more than 1/2" at 100 yards.
     
  9. BILLYBOB44

    BILLYBOB44 Active Member

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    Horse Hoocky?

    This is VERY true-a NECK sized load may NOT fit some other rifle than the ONE that it was fire formed in! Yes ANY FULL LENGTH sized load WILL fit any other rifle chamber of that cal. Yes, you may have to full length size after 4-5 times of shooting neck sized loads, and neck sized should only be fired in a bolt action, due to the strong camming action of the bolt design. I'm a little surprised that someone who has been loading for ONLY 15 years, and can ONLY shoot 1/2' groups@ 100yds. would be jumping on another hand loaders back!:mad: That would be considered a LARGE group for me, with my 22-250. Put another 20 years under your belt, in hand loading, before you come back to tell The Old Man about proper reloading technics, Mr. Tango
     
  10. bgeddes

    bgeddes New Member

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    I think I understand the neck size thing, but I am going to leave it to the more enlightened group.

    I am having a competition benchrest gun built right now. Barrel (mine will be a Hart, as they are 10 miles from my house), a Rem 40-X action, McMillian stock recycled, and chambered in 30BR. All the pieces are there, the load has been worked out by a lot of previous competitors. The issue this year is bullets for competition. Tough to find for the 30BR locally. My father-in-law has been shooting and building IBS guns for 20+ years and he is concerned, and he knows everybody. One of his pals will probably end up making us some bullets for my gun, but top shelf stuff is getting tough to find.

    Just one of those things I guess.....
     
  11. BILLYBOB44

    BILLYBOB44 Active Member

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    Sounds Great!

    Looks like you have all your ducks in a row. Good luck on the bullets, and the making of a winner of a gun:D
     
  12. SlamFire

    SlamFire New Member

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    Sierra Match King -- which are target bullets.

    But if you're going after accuracy . . .

    You should read the comments Varmint Al has on his site, "Varmint Al's Reloading Page"

    Varmint Al's Handloading/Reloading Page

    You need to get a digital scale and weigh/group bullets.

    Weigh/group brass. Get some match grade brass . . . more consistent weight/volume.

    Keep track of "lots" in brass, how many times it's been fired, loaded.

    Sinclair makes a neck trimmer. Neck trimming improves accuracy (time consuming too!)

    Primer pocket prep. Clean, ream pocket seat, clean up flash-hole.

    Trim the necks. You can anneal necks too.

    I NEVER tumble brass! Nicks up the neck/mouth. Varmint Al talks about this.

    (Varmint Al is a retired structural engineer for Lawrence Livermoore, "the nuclear bomb people.")

    The group in my avatar is FIVE shots, 1" circle, from 100 yds off a bench. Rem. 700P, and some really fussy ammo prep. "String" was because the wind was blowin' . . .
     
  13. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    You need to get a digital scale and weigh/group bullets. Digital scales are not as accurate as a beam scale. I know I have both and my digital will be off by up to .2gr. My beam is at most .1gr off that is 50% better.

    I also wasted time grouping bullets. With any good match bullet they are going to be so close in weight that it will not make a difference.

    I weighed 500 168gr SMK the heaviest was 168.3 lightest was 167.9. your talking .4 gr over 500 bullets. most of them were within .1gr again not enough to worry about.

    I agree with weighing and sorting brass if you want to be that anal. Buy the good stuff and you won't have to do that. When I say the good stuff that is not win rem or federal that is Lapua. I also agree with keeping your brass in lots and keeping track of how many times it has been fired.

    Neck trimming is different than neck turning. Neck turning in a factory rifle will gain you nothing other than shorter brass life. The only time you really need to turn necks is if you have a tight neck chamber. You will see 6mm br or 6mm ppc with a .262 neck that is saying you have to turn your necks so that when the bullet is seated they are .261" in dia.

    Cleaning primer pockets is a wast of time unless they are so dirty you can't seat primer.

    Annealing is a dark art. You need to buy a annealing machine or be real good with a torch and have some burn proof fingers. Annealing should only be done after 3 or 4 firings. The nice thing about brass is that when you heat it and cool it fast it does not change like steel does.

    Tumbling brass has never hurt the accuracy of my loads. If you have a case reamer and a deburring tool that takes care of that.

    Varmint Al is a great guy I have talked to him a few times.
     
  14. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    For 16 years I used nothing but Sierra Matchking and Gameking bullets and achieved excellent results. Recently I tried a box of Berger 168gr. Match VLD (very low drag) bullets which have a B.C. of .535 (unheard of with any other manufacturer). I got the tightest group I ever fired with those bullets. Their design is drastically different thanm the most streamlined Sierra or Nosler bullet. The only problem is that they cost $37 a box/100. Not for plinking, but I wouldn't use anything else for long range shooting. I recently did a side-by-side comparison with the Sierra 168gr. BTHP Matchking and the Berger 168gr. Match VLD - the Berger won hands down. What I will purchase next is perhaps the most important piece of equipment to ensure long range accuracy, and that is a competition seating die. Anyone who has reloaded long enough has experienced shaving a tiny sliver of copper jacket off of a bullet during the seating operation. This is because the standard seating dies do not properly center the bullet concentrically with the case mouth and the compound leverage of the press makes it very easy to "shave" the bullet. Tests have shown as much as .75" group spread due to this problem. Competition dies (expensive as hell) eliminate this problem.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2009