Accidental Discharge

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by Michael P., May 9, 2008.

  1. Michael P.

    Michael P. New Member

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    I was exposed to an accidental discharge today. I didn't know this guy very well, but he had a concealed carry license and wanted to "show me his gun", because he knew that I was into firearms. I guess this guy like to carry the weapon with th magazine in and the chamber empty. He gave me the gun properly, with the slide locked back and magazine out. I looked at it and gave it back. He then inserted the magazine, sent the slide forward, pointed the gun at the pavement(we were in the middle of town) and then he pulled the trigger. BOOM! The gun went off. It wasn't expecting him to pull the trigger and he wasn't expecting a round to be in the chamber.

    Nobody got hurt, thankfully. I also had some Quick Clot in my van near by. The guy had been handling firearms and hunting his whole life and had never had an AD. Needless to say he was up set and ashamed. I took the gun and unloaded it. No more drama.

    I guess he wanted to pull the trigger so that there was no tension on the trigger. He said that normally the slide was forward when he inserted the mag. (to his credit, I doubt he had been trained properly and he did have the gun pointed in a "relatively safe direction.")

    I know another person, a female, who used to be in law enforcement, or maybe still is I don't know. She went to unload her gun by, racking the slide, taking the mag out, then pulling the trigger. Bang! The bullet went through her floor, into the apartment under hers. No body was hurt.

    I was never taught to pull the trigger, until on target and ready to fire. Not in the Police Academy, SWAT training, or Firearms instructor school. I don't want to say that this is wrong, but I don't know who is teaching this, and it is obviously causing AD'S. It almost got me shot today! Let me know what you thing and what you do to prevent this.
     
  2. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    I would say you are a lucky SOB and that your friend PROBABLY will never forget today.

    AD's are very scary, and while I have never had the same instance that you had, I once had a member of the local police have an AD and skip a round off the wall in the indoor range we were shooting at. His training partner blew it off and tried to smooth it over with the range commander, but it was quite an event.

    I would say buy yourself a Lotto ticket, kiss your kid(s) and take your wife to bed early tonight - you definitely "dodged the bullet" today.

    Glad no one was hurt.

    JD
     

  3. Michael P.

    Michael P. New Member

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    The crazy thing was, my wife was standing right next to me.

    I have also been on a Police firing range when an AD happened. The woman two shooters down from me was looking me right at me when she accidentally pulled the trigger on her 870 shotgun. The gun went off and the bullet struck about two yards in front of her. This was before I was a range officer. She told the range officer that she did it on purpose. They took her off the range but that was it. That one scared me for some reason. No excuse for that one.
     
  4. hillbilly68

    hillbilly68 New Member

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    Glad that everything worked out OK. We have purposely removed the "AD" as it is a misnomer in most cases, such as this. "Negligent Discharge" is the going rate now, and it does make sense. I would say the the only "AD"s are mechanical (eg slam fire) but most are "NDs" because it is of the negligence of the person holding the weapon. Just an aside.
    Again, glad no one was hurt.
     
  5. Michael P.

    Michael P. New Member

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    Good point on the AD/ND terms. Words are important.
     
  6. poolshark13

    poolshark13 New Member

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    i was going to say the same thing about negligent discharge, but you beat me to it. ;)
     
  7. hydrashok

    hydrashok New Member

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    Wow. I'm glad you made it out of that situation safely with no one hurt.

    I teach the "negligent discharge" terminology, whether it be to military, law enforcement, or civilians. Accidental discharges are very rare, but it should result in no one being hit because we keep our weapons pointed in a safe direction. Even if you had the purest of AD's (ie "slam fires"), the gun wouldn't be pointed at someone when it would have occured.

    As far as your original question:
    Unfortunately, the military is... and I adamantly disagree with it, along with the whole "unloaded weapon" philosophy. Here's why:

    The military is real big on "clearing barrels", which is a barrel full of sand. When a soldier/sailor/airman/marine (from here on out referred to as "soldier") enters a building (even in Iraq "inside the wire"), the soldier is supposed to check/clear the weapon, then "verify" the weapon is cleared by placing the muzzle into a small opening on top of the barrel, and...

    ...PULL THE TRIGGER!

    When the hammer falls, it SHOULD only go "click", but if it does go "BANG!", then the soldier faces punishement for the ND, but it ensured no one got hurt.

    My big disagreement with the clearing barrels are the fact that the military is promoting complacency by making soldiers carry around unloaded weapons. If all weapons were loaded at all times, the soldiers would have more respect for them, and that would cut out a LOT of horse-play I have seen, and my friend SSG Berry would still be with us today.

    In October 2005, I had been out on patrol all night, and was sleeping in my tent. At a little after 7am, I was awakened by a loud "BANG!" In the tent next to mine, another NCO asked SSG Berry if his "weapon was loaded" because he saw a magazine in his 9mm Beretta. SSG Berry pulled the 9mm and pointed the muzzle under his chin and said, "if it would loaded, would I do this?" The next thing SSG Berry did was DIED.

    A loaded weapon kept in a holster doesn't accidently go "BANG!" When I'm in a classroom, I feel more comfortable knowing every single holstered weapon is loaded as opposed to "guessing" if every weapon is cleared. I can't change the military's way of thinking, but in *MY* classroom, all holstered weapons MUST be loaded, and we train with "blue guns". There's no question or doubt that way.

    Wow, I was on quite a soapbox with this post... sorry about that.
     
  8. mrwatch

    mrwatch New Member

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    loaded?

    It was said that a loaded weapon in a holster doesn't go bang. About 20 years ago an officer in my county had his weapon discharge going thru the back of his leg. He sued the manufacture and won. I don't know the details of it. Retired early. I bought my son a used 22 semi auto from a gun shop for the club range. When he pressed the release and closed the slide it went off one time. We tried it again and same thing. The others started down range for their targets and I called hold it, defective gun on line. They looked at me like we were bothering them and went on. Took it back to the dealer and he found a broken srping and would not warrenty it. He probably traded it in that way and never test fired it. I never dealt there again. Another time I went to a police invitational pistol shoot. A lady next to me had the barrel pointed down on the line table and the hammer was half way back. It went off into the table. I questioned later why nothing was said to her? Ohh well things happen!
    Since the millitary was brought up, we all should remember the bombing of the USS Cole. Boat pulled up along side and blew up like a car bomb killing many. At least one news media reported the men on guard duty were not allowed to have loaded wepons. True? Why? I hope they changed that rule.
     
  9. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    There is no such thing as an accidental discharge, there is such thing as an unsafe fool though. Trigger and muzzle discipline are the only two safeties that every firearm posses. Learn to use them.
     
  10. h&k bigdaddydieseldan

    h&k bigdaddydieseldan New Member

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    I agree with Dillinger 100% you were one lucky sob :eek::eek:
     
  11. kevinleif2

    kevinleif2 New Member

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    in 3 years with my former agency, i was exposed to 4 AD's-all of them were negligent, and all will always be. all had chances to go really wrong, but by the grace of you know who, didn't.

    know that every time you or someone else have a loaded mag IN, and that slide is sent forward, a round is always charged...this goes for every weapon, semi or auto, rifle/shotgun/handgun...always! have to be mindful of that...even if you're the bystander!

    very scary situation, that poeple you're supposed to trust in that they know what they're doing, will let their guard down...that's not to say that couldn't ever happen to you either, so watch yourself, for your sake...because even though you may not be the one to pull the trigger, that's not to say that round, or seperated jacket from ricochet won't head in your direction.

    lucky
     
  12. gorknoids

    gorknoids New Member

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    Hmmm...

    I agree with Matt G. Inert objects never shoot people. No bat, left in a dugout, ever hit a homerun.
     
  13. Alliensb

    Alliensb New Member

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    Say hi

    hello,everyone! I'm new here. just log-in and say hi. hope i can be part of this community. I'm from tamana, Japan.
    lol.
     
  14. Bigguns911

    Bigguns911 New Member

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    In the original post the friend said he always pulls the trigger after putting the mag in, but the slid is forward when he does it. I believe what took place in this case was change of behavior. He most likely does not hand his gun over to others often and there for this was a change in behavior for him. His mind was on taking about his gun and not thinking about being safe. This is why when I train people on dry fire and such I tell them to triple check the chamber for clear. One time is not enuf, two times is getting there three times you have it set in my mind, have pulled the slid back three times and know the gun is good to go. I also tell them to use a safe back stop, remove all live ammo from the training area and tell them selves this is dry fire three times.

    A person needs to stay focused on what they are doing while handling a gun, day dreaming and guns are not a god thing. If you are going to pull the trigger, like with a Glock, check it three times. Stay safe
     
  15. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    All of my centerfire semi-auto handguns have decocking levers. I always carry with a chambered round, but I leave the decocker in position. This prevents the gun from being discharged even if the trigger is pulled. Prior to being able to fire a round, the decocker must be flipped up, like a safety. This requires a conscious effort on the part of the shooter, and is also another lifesaving precaution in the unlikely event that I am forcibly disarmed since it would buy extra time before the gun can be brought into battery. I learned very early on through the use of BP revolvers to always carry with an empty chamber under the hammer.
     
  16. tookalisten

    tookalisten New Member

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    I appreciate this post as it is a good reminder of what can happen. At the Concealed Carry class yesterday, I was happy when our instructor said that even though it would take longer, he would only check each of us on the range one at a time, and did not allow multiple shooters as many classes did. Before leaving, I told my daughter who was taking the class with me to be particularly wary at the range because you never knew what training those around us would have.
     
  17. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    I'm sorry you lost a buddy but I've got to ask...was SSG Berry, a little OFF?
    7 yrs Infantry here so I'm familiar with SOP on barrel clearing and also disagree with the "loaded phobia" that seems to permeate the military but JEEZE...putting a gun under your chin and pulling the trigger to prove it's not loaded would by number 2 on the all time "foolish things to do" list. Nubmer 1 would be pointing at someone else and doing the same thing.
     
  18. TheOldMan

    TheOldMan New Member

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    Did everyone miss this part but me? There was nothing accidental about this! Pure stupidity IMO. Please excuse the tone of this posting but I waded through all of the posts and did not see where anyone had noticed that the fella chambered a round before pulling the triigger.

    Slide back... insert loaded magazine... send slide forward (thereby chambering a round).. pull trigger... BOOM.. Gun did exactly what it was made to do.

    You were damn lucky there young man. I know plenty of folks in this forum who would never trust to be around that fella again. All it takes is one time. If you are going to release the slide, do it "before" you put the loaded magazine back in!
     
  19. sheriffoconee

    sheriffoconee New Member

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    at my age, I am having more and more accidental discharges......

    oh...uhh, you mean with a FIREARM????? No, never with a firearm.....
     
  20. TheOldMan

    TheOldMan New Member

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    Very funny... Hey, you wouldn't happen to be from around Eatonton would you? I've been on Lake Oconee several times with friends. Not far from there myself. They used to have a great BBQ place out there with a big Hog outside. Closed now I believe..