A trainer forgets the basics

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by JWagner, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. JWagner

    JWagner New Member

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  2. Doc3402

    Doc3402 New Member

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    One moments lapse. That's all it takes. I mean heck, he's done it thousands of times. What could possibly go wrong?
     

  3. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    Didn't know the gun was loaded? :eek: And what was his finger doing on the trigger, anyway? And certainly not pointed in a safe direction. Sheesh!!

    In the future the victim will say, "I got this scar by being shot in a gun safety class."
     
  4. JW357

    JW357 New Member

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    I kinda think whoever issued him his instructing certs should revoke them.

    As Winds said, a lot of rules would have had to have been broken for this to happen.
     
  5. CrazedJava

    CrazedJava New Member

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    Over at Truth About Guns they pointed out, fairly, that there is a reason they make those blue safety guns. Hell, you could probably buy a fairly cheap Airsoft Gun with all the same controls to demonstrate with.

    There are a plethora of ways this could have been avoided.

    Not to mention CNN was all over this despite hundreds of classes being taught every day without incident.
     
  6. johnr1943

    johnr1943 New Member

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    I would expect no less from CNN (an "Agenda" leader). :mad:
     
  7. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    "Police are investigating this shooting as accidental".

    This was not an accidental discharge.
     
  8. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Semantics. The shooting was an 'unintentional' discharge. It did cause an injury so it was a 'negligent' act. In the context of the 'law' it was 'accidental' as opposed to 'intentional'. ;)
    Don't be to quick to condemn. If you make a living with 'guns' it is not a matter of 'if' you will have an 'unintentional' discharge, but when! :eek:
    "Familiarity breeds complacency" Another of my favorite quotes.
    We, in the business, MUST be EXTRA careful! :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  9. gr8oldguy

    gr8oldguy New Member

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    There's an old say "Amateurs practice to get it right, professionals practice so they can't get it wrong". I'm glad no one was hurt too bad.
     
  10. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    While there is a strong possibility that there will not be a criminal action prosecution, there is still the possibility of civil court action by the person shot.

    I agree that there is not an "if" it happens, but "when" it happens. And hope that everyone understands that this incident was not an accident, but negligence.
     
  11. blackxpress

    blackxpress Member

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    The instructor in my CCW class used replica guns for classroom demonstrations. We only used real guns at the range and every muzzle was pointed down range at all times. Seems simple enough to me.
     
  12. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    True. You can be sued for ANYTHING these days. If a person is using their cell phone or texting and they hit another car is this 'negligence' or an accident?;)
    Most accidents are preventable because they are, most of the time, the end result of negligence!
    Semantics?;)
     
  13. kbd512

    kbd512 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I'm glad I don't attend any more firearms "safety" classes than the absolute minimum.

    :p
     
  14. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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  15. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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  16. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    QFT.

    I can understand a pro making a mistake or just having a brainfart--can happen to anybody--but the incident in the OP just seems so fundamentally stupid...

    In the past 15-20 years I've seen too many so-called "instructors" out there who's qualifications are open to question.
     
  17. AR10

    AR10 New Member

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    The instructor is 73. Well before the shooting, he was 73, he had some accelerated aging at the time of the negligent discharge. He is about 93 now.

    Some have mentioned no firearms in class. A gun did not fall off a table and crush a toe, a live round negligently discharged into a student. A simple and approved method of safety is no live rounds in a firearms safety classroom.

    I have range bags, and I have classroom bags, and no live ammo ever goes into a classroom bag.

    Classroom bag is upright, and range bags are horizontal. Classroom bag is clearly marked, NO LIVE AMMUNITION INSIDE THIS BAG !

    I think students can see real guns in a classroom, however many unwavering, redundant, hard, fast, safety rules need to be in place.

    Gun safety class uses bright orange plastic dummy ammo, that students can see clearly across the room, is safe.

    When safety checking a firearm in a classroom, the Instructor as well as at least one student verifies the gun is clear.

    All firearm safety rules are in place in the classroom, at all times. Dummy ammo or not, all firearms are treated as if they are loaded.

    If students are unsupervised even for a second, with class firearms, I have plastic safety barrels in them, that cannot accept any ammo in the chamber area.

    Classroom is clearly marked NO AMMO ALLOWED IN THIS CLASSROOM IN MANY LOCATIONS. First thing out of my mouth is I have everyone raise their hand if they are here to take a firearms safety class. I have them keep their hand up, and I tell them, put your hand down, IF YOU DID NOT BRING AMMO TO CLASS! Any one with their hand still up, is instructed to exit the class, and put ammo in their car.

    Also, no firearms in class, at the students desk. If a student wants to bring a show and tell gun to class, that firearm is safety checked, and is on a gun table at the Instructors immediate area of control.

    IMHO, 73 year olds should maybe put pen to paper, and author books on gun safety, or lecture with other younger Instructors, but teaching a class solo at 73 ? Maybe not such a good idea. I am 56, and I know I will not be teaching solo at 73. That is my opinion of myself.
     
  18. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Many here seem to forget, a firearm is about a millions times safer than a motor vehicle in ANYONE'S HANDS! BUT because we have had to be SOOO careful with a gun any thing which even appears to be the least bit unsafe is not PC. :eek:
    Why is this you might ask??
    It is because we who defend our RIGHT TKABA's are constantly under attack and scrutinized by our ENEMIES, the ones who want us ALL disarmed.
    So I would suggest you be as hard on those who 'negligently' misuse a motor vehicle, which causes billions of dollars of damage and kills thousands of people each year, as you are on anyone who unintentional discharges a firearm!!! ;)
    OH I forgot that will fit into the progressive narrative so we can't do that!:eek:
     
  19. RemFire

    RemFire New Member

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    "I'm the only one in this room professional enough..." BOOM! :rolleyes:

    There's another video of him being interviewed, he was trying to have the video removed from YouTube or to have the uploader prosecuted. Probably the former but either way I'm sure he had the courts involved.

    I think if people actually knew how their firearms functioned as mechanical devices alone it would save so many stupid 'accidents', but damn why even touch the trigger?. It's for putting holes through things, it's quite simple don't touch it until your ready to put a hole through something FFS. One thing I like about Yeager is his firearm "danger checks", it makes the point that you should always treat a firearm as a loaded one.