A question to your view of the flag.

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by DarinCraft, Feb 26, 2010.

  1. Absolutely not. It is unpatriotic to do anything but salute the flag

    29 vote(s)
    90.6%
  2. Yes if it is for reasons that are not to deface it.

    1 vote(s)
    3.1%
  3. I don't know. I would have to do a case by case basis.

    2 vote(s)
    6.3%
  1. DarinCraft

    DarinCraft New Member

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    The flag, the stars and stripes that represents this wonderful country. Every detail has a reason, every stitch has a story and every star has a name. To me it is just as important as the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the Holy Bible.

    Over the decades it has changed to reflect changes in this country, however I have seen some pics on the net where someone has photoshopped the flag so it reflects a current event/problem. I have mixed feelings about this, but it made me think of something. How would you feel if someone altered a real flag so that one of the stripes was changed black or blue to reflect a fallen officer or yellow to show respect for the military?

    I'm torn the act would in some ways reflect the patriotism of the fallen, however that is why we fly the flags at half mast. So why alter the flag to symbolize a loss when the simple act of its position can do the same?
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  2. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    My feelings are that the Flag symbolizes freedom, sacrifice and our Country's history.

    I've seen some of those variants that you speak of and while they're interesting, the original truly symbolizes it all.
     

  3. Davyboy

    Davyboy New Member

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    The Flag

    Well said Darrin I wish we had the same respect for the Union Jack. To most in this it is hardly a symbol at all "sad I Guess"
     
  4. DarinCraft

    DarinCraft New Member

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    Thank you for the replies. Although I have never served in the military, I hold the flag very near and dear. When I was in the Academy one of my jobs was the Flag detail. Everyday before the Academy I raised the flag and everyday after I lowered the flag and folded it. I can tell you that during those moments was when I was the most proud. To this very day it still raises the hair on my neck.

    I can understand the thought behind wanting to personalize the flag so it shows your feelings of loss, but would you write over John 3:16 so it would reflect how you feel about your girlfriend, or alter the Bill of Rights so it shows the rights of being a member of the Moose Lodge?
     
  5. deth502

    deth502 New Member

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    imo, not acceptable.

    imo, that flag is a symbol of what my forefathers fought and died for. it symbolizes the spirit of freedom the country was built on.

    there was no change in the flag for the nearly 1000 service members that died in Afghanistan so far, not to mention iraq, or ANY of the other wars before. these are the ppl that are fighting for our way of life. no matter what you think of the war or our reasons to be there, the fact is, no matter why were there, the vast majority of those fighting it signed up to defend our country and our freedoms. to change it for a fallen officer, imo, is a slap in the face to not only those who gave their life in defense of the country, but all who served, as im sure they knew, part of the deal was to be ready to give your life at any time.

    and afa showing respect for the military, thats what the flag IS. (see above) i fly a flag to show my support to those who fight for it. altering it in any way would kind of defeat that purpose.

    now, i can guess by your avatar that you are a leo, and before you get the idea that im anti leo, im not. i work a govt job, in the same building as the police. we also do all of the maintance and repair, as well as accessory installs in their vehicles. some of them are my best friends.
     
  6. deth502

    deth502 New Member

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    i also want to add that im not tooting my own horn either.

    i never served in the military.

    i tried waaay back about a yr after i graduated high school, but was refused for medical reasons.
     
  7. DarinCraft

    DarinCraft New Member

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    You have some good points, but re-read the OP I mentioned changes for the Military. I am not for it or against it, at least so far that is how I feel. I am still up in the air about it.
     
  8. deth502

    deth502 New Member

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    i addressed that in the 4th paragraph of my first reply.

    i was addressing both scenarios separately.

    i dont agree with it, but then again, there are a lot of things i see going on with the flag that i dont agree with,that i dont think are respectful (like the framing and displaying of tattered/torn old flags) . otoh, i have also seen displays that i though were very good and respectful, although, by definition of the flag code, they were no-no's. like flying a flag off the back of a vehicle, on the trailer hitch, in parades and such.

    im not trying to sway your opinion, or look down on anyone elses, its just a strong subject for me. there are few subjects im very opinionated on, and this is one of them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  9. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    The brave soldiers that die in service to their country do not wish to be shown respect by means of an alternate flag. They fought for the country that is represented by the flag of the United States of America, which is why it is given so much respect, not because of the fabric it is made of, but the freedom it stands for. Should I die in service, I want my wife to be handed the flag of the USA not an altered version.
     
  10. DarinCraft

    DarinCraft New Member

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    My opinion is not what matters here, I want to know yours. Thanks for posting it.

    Yunus,
    Thank you for that perspective.

    "It is the proud and patriotic of us who do not wish anything special be done for us. We do what we do for the country and the people who live here, not for the glory or attention that our actions bring."
    I wish I could say that statement came from someone profound, I'm sure it would mean more, but it didn't I made it up. I think it is true though. Is for me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  11. Car54

    Car54 New Member

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    I think the flag should be left as it is. I would say it should be okay for the group that is representing the death of their own, to supply a smaller group designated flag if they so choose. It then could be buried with the casket, or folded and given to a survivor just as the flag of the U.S.A. is.
     
  12. michigan0626

    michigan0626 New Member

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    I voted yes if not to deface it. My rational is to change it if we add another state. not sure what or how they would make a flag with 51 stars.
     
  13. michigan0626

    michigan0626 New Member

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    the top one would be the official 51 state flag designed by the Army Institute of Heraldry, and the bottom is the proposed flag by the New Progressive Party of Puerto Rico. I like the top one because it keeps in tradition of our current flag. But the bottom one is interesting because when I look at the center star there is an optical illusion where a 5 armed star forms.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 27, 2010
  14. doctherock

    doctherock New Member

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    I too served our country and feel the flag should remain the same, unless we for some reason add another state. The flag i f i remember right breaks down as follows.

    The stars represent the individual states of the union, The royal blue stands for loyalty, white for courage and red for the blood of all those who have fallen for this country and who will continue to fall. There are 13 strips which stand for the origonal 13 colonies. You can find out more by looking it up on www.answers.com
    If i am mistaken or you have something to add please do.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2010
  15. AcidFlashGordon

    AcidFlashGordon New Member

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    I don't see the 5-armed star in the second one but I do see this:

    [​IMG]

    It's the first thing that popped out at me when I first saw the picture. Not something I'd want to see on a U.S. flag representing 51 states. If it happens, I'd rather see the first "modification" to the star field.
     
  16. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with keeping the flag unchanged. I didn't notice the piece symbol until you brought it up. I hate that thing. I saw a bumper sticker with a picture of one. Underneath it said "Footprint of the great American Chicken!"
     
  17. michigan0626

    michigan0626 New Member

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    Quick modification using paint to show what I saw.
     

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  18. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    A HUGE plus one! Best opinion I have read on the subject.

    JD
     
  19. michigan0626

    michigan0626 New Member

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    There is nothing more beautiful than US flag. I would die for it, literally. If I would have done what I wanted and go to embassy duty, and we were being overrun, I would risk my life to secure the flag from the roof top. Think of the scene in Rules of Engegement when Samuel L Jackson runs back to grab the flag.
     

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  20. Shihan

    Shihan Active Member Lifetime Supporter

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    “This flag, which we honor and under which we serve,
    is the emblem of our unity, our power, our thought
    and purpose as a nation...”
    - President Woodrow Wilson


    I AM THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
    By Howard Schnauber

    I am the flag of the United States of America.
    My name is "Old Glory".
    I fly atop the world's tallest buildings.
    I stand watch in America's halls of justice.
    I fly majestically over institutions of learning.
    I stand guard with power in the world.
    Look up and see me.

    I stand for peace, honor, truth and justice.
    I stand for freedom.
    I am confident.
    I am arrogant.
    I am proud.

    When I am flown with my fellow banners,
    My head is a little higher,
    My colors a little truer.

    I bow to no one!
    I am recognized all over the world.
    I am worshipped -- I am saluted.
    I am loved -- I am revered.
    I am respected -- and I am feared.

    I have fought in every battle of every war
    for more then 200 years.
    I was flown at Valley Forge, Gettysburg,
    Shiloh and Appomattox.
    I was there at San Juan Hill,
    the trenches of France,
    in the Argonne Forest, Anzio, Rome
    and the beaches of Normandy, Guam,
    Okinawa, Korea, and Vietnam.
    I was there. I led my troops.
    I was dirty, battle-weary and tired,
    but my soldiers cheered me
    And I was proud.

    I have been burned, torn and trampled
    on the streets of countries I have helped set free.
    It does not hurt, for I am invincible.

    I have been soiled upon, burned, torn
    and trampled on the streets of my country.
    And when it's by those whom I've served in battle -- it hurts.
    But I shall overcome -- for I am strong.

    I have slipped the bonds of Earth
    and stood watch over the uncharted frontiers of space
    from my vantage point on the moon.
    I have borne silent witness
    to all of America's finest hours.
    But my finest hours are yet to come.

    When I am torn into strips
    and used as bandages
    for my wounded comrades on the battlefield,
    When I am flown at half-mast to honor my soldier,
    Or when I lie in the trembling arms
    of a grieving parent at the grave of their fallen son or daughter,
    I am proud.

    MY NAME IS "OLD GLORY".
    LONG MAY I WAVE.
    DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN,
    LONG MAY I WAVE. ​