a little dissapointed...

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by 70cuda383, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. 70cuda383

    70cuda383 New Member

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    I recently acquired a used Savage model 11 .308 with a fairly new (he said brand new?) Vortex 3-9x40 Diamondback with the BDC recticle.

    I went to do some zeroing shots today. at first, I had to bring the paper in to 50 yards just to get on the paper, and even then, I had one of 4 shots graze the edge of the plate.

    made about 30 clicks on the scope to center it up some.

    tried again, then went back to 100 yards.


    I was really hoping for a tighter group at just 100 yards. I ended up with an almost 5" group on the plate,

    I wanted to get a nice bolt action so I can do some long range shooting. during competition, I've done some 400 yard work with a 20" AR and iron sights and did pretty good...I was at least hitting the flash target with the strobe light that would signal a hit.

    but as I look at this grouping, I'm feeling like an amateur. I think I've done better with my non-magnified 16" M4gery and a red-dot!

    I don't feel like I could even begin to try to get a 200 yard zero with a grouping like this, it'd be such a wide grouping that I'd never be able to tell what the grouping actually is!

    [​IMG]


    this is my first scoped bolt action rifle, looks like I've got a LOT of work ahead of me to get as good with it as I am with the rapid fire semi-autos and pistols! haha.

    First up, I want a better trigger this one feels quite stiff. after that...not sure what I'll need. I was practicing dry fire and felt like I was holding the target ok while squeezing the trigger. is it really that hard to shoot MOA without using sandbags and bench rests? (I was just laying prone in the yard, using my off-hand/fist as a rest to hold the rifle up)
     
  2. hardluk1

    hardluk1 Active Member

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    Its easier to zero a scope at 25 yards. If spot on at 25 yards, hard to miss there. Bolt rifles also can bore sighted easily at 25 yards but you need a rest. Then you should be close at 200 yards.

    Take the scope off and see if the base is tight and loc-tite in place. Then put the scope back on. Check the rings too. Maybe take a buddy with you to shot it too. Could end up being a junk scope. could end up the way your try'n to rest and shot the rifle . With out some kind of solid rest to shot from getting a got group and all about your skill sets. For me I will ot shoot for group with out rifle rest front and rear. Atleast use a back pac or bag of ptting soi and a jacket. something solid.

    If the trigger is a old non adjustable trigger and you got to have a better trigger , Rifle Basix sav-1 trigger is 85 bucks. easy to install and adjust down to 1lb. But it should be good enought with out a better trigger .

    How well did you clean the bore?? Soak with a good copper cleaner brush and map dry. It could be copper up being a older used rifle and that alone will kill accuracy. Have a seasoned shooter or hunter give you a hand with checking it out and shooting. Use a 150 or 165gr bullet too. No 180gr needed and no junk odd ball old nato ammo. Last, it could be a junk scope.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013

  3. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Maybe you just need larger targets?
     
  4. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    What ammo were you using?? Try different ammo.
     
  5. 70cuda383

    70cuda383 New Member

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    ammo was Federal match, I dont remember the grain count off the top of my head, I'd have to go check it again, but it's just a plain white box that says "federal" and I think on one end it said "Match"

    didn't think about cleaning the bore. I don't even have .30 caliber brushes yet:eek: I forgot that I read how a dirty bore can mess up groupings.

    I've heard good things about the vortex scopes, this one seems to retail for about $200 at various online shops, and vortex seems to have a great warranty if needed.

    larger targets? haha. that's not going to help me get a tighter group! how big is a paper plate anyway? 10" diameter?
     
  6. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    Cuda, those Savage rifles are usually pretty accurate. it being a used rifle, i would see about doing a very thorough bore cleaning to start off with, then buy some various different ammos to try out. there is the possibility the scope is the culprit, but also as suggested, check the bases and scope rings for tightness first. also do a thorough cleaning and then a light oiling of the trigger group as well and it might help the feel of the trigger. i have bought several used rifles that had a heavy gunk build-up in the trigger assemblies and a good cleaning made a world of difference.
     
  7. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

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    I have a 300 WM bolt gun for long range target and when it was fairly new, about 500 rounds down the pipe, it's accuracy went to sh!T. One of the 1000 yard target shooters in the club said to try Wipe-Out by Sharp Shoot R Precision Products.

    Now, I had been lightly cleaning the barrel after every 60 or so rounds with Hopps #9 and thought it was clean, and that was after a break in which I saw little to no copper indications. But after using the Wipe-Out foam bore cleaner I saw from the patches the barrel was fouled with copper. After I used this stuff to clean the barrel, it shot, once again, less then 1/4" groups @ 100 yards. I was more than pleased with the results, the barrel never built up that much copper again, and it kept shooting extremely tight groups until the barrel was "shot out".

    I don't clean the barrel that much on my precision bolt guns as it does take life out of the barrel, but I do clean and use Wipe-Out now about every 400 to 500 rounds.

    Also, I run a timed brake on this rifle and found carbon build up on the crown. Carbon build up on the crown, I found out is, natural with a brake or supressor if you have a brake on your rifle check the crown for carbon build up. If you don't have a brake check the crown to see if it is damaged as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
  8. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    It was your first time to shoot the rifle. Did you have instant skills with your pistol? After firing a number of centerfire rifle rounds many people start flinching. Were you shooting with your eyes open? You mentioned all your experience is with a 5.56 which has virtually no recoil. Most rifle competitions don't allow the use of a scope or a red dot. They are a pure iron sight affair. Hunters use scopes for their shooting, not target shooters. You have a hunting rifle and hope to win shooting competitions?
     
  9. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    the type of rifle you have is a hunting rifle. the barrels are very thin and lightweight. this means its terrible for doing shot after shot. the more you heat the barrel up the bigger the groups get.

    the purpose of these guns are to take one shot on a deer collect deer gut and dress out the deer go out the next day take a shot collect deer etc.

    after taking a shot wait until you feel zero warmth anywhere on the barrel then take another shot wait etc.

    if you wait for a totally cool barrel i think your groups will shrink considerably
     
  10. TLuker

    TLuker New Member

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    Lots of good advice. My .02 which is basically what everyone said:

    1. Take the scope off and check the base and rings
    2. Clean the barrel
    3. Shoot from a solid rest and see what the gun can really do (I like a bipod in the front and a small sand bag on the rear).
    4. Take several boxes with you and see which the gun likes best
    5. Let the barrel cool after 3 shots or so. Warm is ok but don't let it get hot.
    6. Then work on building good shooting positions (Google prone, sitting, standing, and kneeling).

    Good luck.

    And you might want to just try the gun as is from a sold rest without doing anything just see how much of that was you?:)
     
  11. 70cuda383

    70cuda383 New Member

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    No, I have no desire to shoot competition with this rifle, I only mentioned the competition shooting I've done as a reference, which was IDPA and IPSC/3-gun i.e. "Speed shooting" I competed in "limited" for 3-gun because I didn't have a compensator on my AR (post ban, bought in 2002), and I didn't use a red dot, cause I was a broke college kid who spent all his money on the gun, couldn't afford tacticool stuff like red dots.

    I just wanted a bolt action with a scope so I can take long range shots. Either target practice or hunting, but I can't hunt with this in Ohio. (deer anyway. coyote are fair game it seems:confused:)

    I'm aware of hot barrels not shooting accurately. yesterday I fired some rounds to get on paper. Today, I fired 7 rounds. 3 rounds followed by about a 5 minute break, while I walked out to look at the target, walk back in, reload the mag, re-install my ear plugs, re-check that the field I was shooting across was still clear, checking for vehicle traffic, etc. then fired the next 4 rounds. I could feel a little warmth to the barrel, but not a ton.

    My eyes were open while shooting, I don't THINK I was flinching or anticipating, but it may be possible. My focus was on my breathing, pausing at the natural "low" between breaths and holding momentarily while squeezing. Might have to put a camera on myself so I can replay it and see what I'm doing when the gun goes bang.


    Anyway, I've got a list of things to do for now, starting with a good cleaning of the bore. (since this is a used gun, unknown round count, how can you tell when a barrel is "shot out" ? does the measurements change on a micrometer/caliper? or is it just something you know after so many rounds?)
     
  12. mchoitz

    mchoitz New Member

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    I have a similar model and same problem, I don't like the fact that it is lighter barrel or maybe we both got screwed and bought lemons
     
  13. Squawk

    Squawk New Member

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    This is very important. If you are wanting to shoot faster and get consistent groups, you need a higher end rifle with a Bull Barrel. My first bolt Action was accurate for 2 quick ones and then got further away on the 3rd, 4th and 5th.
     
  14. MOshooter

    MOshooter New Member

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    I would make sure the scope is mounted "rock solid" clean the barrel and check the crown for any damage. To really check the rifles accuracy taking it to the bench on a solid rest is the best way to know exactly how well your scope is zeroed and accuracy capability of your rifle.
     
  15. 70cuda383

    70cuda383 New Member

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    what are you guys calling "faster" shooting? I'm shooting 3 rounds at a time, with about 15 seconds between shots, followed by a 5-10 minute cooling period.

    is that still "too fast" for a hunting rifle with a light weight barrel? yes, I did realize that this is not a big heavy bull barrel.
     
  16. 70cuda383

    70cuda383 New Member

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    This is what I consider "faster fire"

    I shot 25 rounds in about 20 seconds through my AR, target was at 100 yards. no magnification.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    turn this
    to: shooting 1 round at a time, with about 3-5 minutes between shots.

    thats closer to what a lightweight hunting gun is capable of if your trying to really see what it's true accuracy potential is.
     
  18. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And check the stock bedding screws. Loose screws will open a group.
     
  19. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    I don't own a Savage in .308. I have an old 110 Sierra lite in 7MM Rem Mag. 2 shots from a cold barrel is all it was intended for. The second is the OS round. I do own a Howa HB 22" barrel .308. Even w/ a HB it only takes 5 rounds, 1 well full to heat up . Just make the 1st round count!
     
  20. hardluk1

    hardluk1 Active Member

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    cuda Looks like 25 rounds in 20 seconds too Looks like bucks at 40 yards. ha Guess your standing and just bang'n away. Just waisteing ammo.

    You know you can also torgue the action screw to change how a rifle shoots. But for any one that buys a used rifle it can be a turkey shot as to how well it shoots .

    You may need the help of a more seasoned shooter/hunter to help sort out your rifle and maybe you.