A Lie Best Hidden Between Two Truths

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by user4, Mar 29, 2010.

  1. user4

    user4 New Member

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    Disturbing reading... but it also doesn't quite add up

    FOXNews.com - Michigan Militia Group Preparing for Antichrist, Web Site Says

    The Michigan-based militia group charged with conspiring to kill police officers is preparing for battle with the Antichrist, according to a Web site purportedly run by the group.

    Mar. 28: Michigan State Police guard a home in Clayton after the FBI raided the home of a suspected militia leader.

    The Michigan-based militia group charged with conspiring to kill police officers is preparing for battle with the Antichrist, according to a Web site purportedly run by the group.

    "Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment," Hutaree.com reads. "The only thing on earth to save the testimony and those who follow it, are the members of the testimony, til the return of Christ in the clouds. We, the Hutaree, are prepared to defend all those who belong to Christ and save those who aren't. We will still spread the word, and fight to keep it, up to the time of the great coming."

    Nine suspects associated with Hutaree, which is purportedly a Christian-based militia group, have been charged with conspiring to kill police officers and then attack a funeral in hopes of killing more law enforcement officials, federal prosecutors said Monday. U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade said agents moved on the group because the militia members were planning an attack sometime in April.

    Members of the militia, including its leader, David Brian Stone, also known as "Captain Hutaree," are charged in the case and allegedly met regularly since at least 2008 to conduct military-style training in Michigan's Lenawee County and elsewhere. An indictment alleges that members of the group conspired to "levy war against the United States, (and) to oppose by force the authority of the government of the United States."

    Eight suspects have been arrested by the FBI and one more is being sought. Of the eight captured, seven were arraigned Monday in Detroit and ordered held pending a bond hearing Wednesday.

    Stone's ex-wife, Donna Stone, told The Associated Press before the arraignments that her former husband was to blame for pulling her son into the Hutaree movement. She said David Brian Stone legally adopted her son, David Brian Stone Jr., who is among those indicted. She said the marriage lasted about 10 years.

    "It started out as a Christian thing," said Donna Stone, 44. "You go to church. You pray. You take care of your family. I think David started to take it a little too far. He dragged a lot of people with him."

    Another son of David Brian Stone, Joshua Matthew Stone, also was indicted and is a fugitive, said Detroit FBI spokeswoman Sandra Berchtold.

    According to an indictment unsealed Monday, nine members of the militia had planned to kill a member of law enforcement and then plant an improvised explosive device to attack the subsequent funeral procession. Other possible acts included killing a law enforcement official and his or her family at home or luring a member of law enforcement with a false 911 emergency call and then killing him or her.

    "These acts would intimidate and demoralize law enforcement diminishing their ranks and rendering them ineffective," the indictment reads.

    Once such an attack was launched, the indictment alleges that Hutaree members would then retreat to one of several "rally points" to detonate trip-wired improvised explosive devices.

    "It is believed by the Hutaree that this engagement would then serve as a catalyst for a more wide-spread uprising against the Government," the indictment continued.

    Several conspirators allegedly attempted to travel to Kentucky in early February to attend a summit of militia groups convened by Stone, the alleged leader of the organization.

    "The purpose of the summit of militia groups was to facilitate better communications, cooperation, and coordination between the various militias," the indictment read.

    Although weather ultimately prevented the conspirators from reaching their destination, Stone allegedly identified law enforcement officers in a "specific community" near his residence and one officer as potential targets, according to the indictment.

    Weeks later, the suspects gathered in Michigan's Lenawee County to engage in training for the planned covert reconnaissance exercise. Each suspect in attendance carried and used at least one firearm, the indictment continues.

    Andrew Arena, head of the FBI's field office in Detroit, said the case is an example of "radical and extremist fringe groups" found throughout society.

    The "Doctrine of the Hutaree," which is based on faith, according to the group's Web site, states that Christians should "stand firm in Christ and believe in him until our uttermost end. The testimony must by no means pass away and we must spread the word believing in Christ's words, even during the end times."

    A two-minute video on the Web site depicts several camouflaged, armed men firing high-powered rifles as they move throughout open wilderness. At one point, three men can be seen firing weapons from behind a parked vehicle. Several other videos of the militia's training activities, including one that has been viewed more than 21,000 times, can be found on its YouTube channel.

    Michael Lackomar, a spokesman for the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia, told the Associated Press that one of his team leaders got a frantic phone call Saturday evening from members of Hutaree, which the Web site says means "Christian soldier." The callers said their property in southeast Michigan was being raided by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Lackomar said.

    "They said they were under attack by the ATF and wanted a place to hide," Lackomar said. "My team leader said, 'No thanks.'"

    A message sent to the militia group by FoxNews.com seeking comment was not immediately returned early Monday.

    According to the militia's ranking system, members of the group can hold titles such as senior gunner, gold rifleman, "zulif" and "arkon."

    "Respect the officer above you and obey your commander with dignity," the Web site reads. "Each man holds his place in flesh and spirit, heaven and earth."

    The Web site also includes links to Hutaree forums, a photograph of a patch for the Colonial Christian Republic and a red banner promoting a training session for April 24.

    "Preparing for the end time battles to keep the testimony of Jesus Christ alive," the Web site reads. " ... Being Hutaree is to stay the Testimony of Christ alive, and follow a motto, John 15:13, 'Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.'"

    Hutaree was named in a list of 512 so-called active "patriot" groups in the U.S. last year by the Southern Poverty Law Center in its spring intelligence report on extremist organizations. Of those groups, 127 were militias, including Hutaree. The remaining groups, according to SPLC, engage in "groundless conspiracy theorizing" or advocate anti-government doctrines.

    The Associated Press contributed to this report.
     
  2. sheriffoconee

    sheriffoconee New Member

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    What exactly doesn't add up??
     

  3. user4

    user4 New Member

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    So, they had this nefarious scheme planned out like pros, and then the plan was to meet up some place and just detonate some IEDs at random? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It's either bad reporting, or a LE sanctioned fabrication to make a conviction.
     
  4. ThorsHammer

    ThorsHammer New Member

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    Nothing in there adds up, most probably because these guys were a few peeps short of an Easter basket. At first it sounds just like they are simply going to build a militia to protect the Christian faith, but then their rhetoric switches into talking about the end times and the anti-Christ and similar terrorist drivel. :rolleyes: I may have assessed the situation wrong, please correct me if I did.
     
  5. sheriffoconee

    sheriffoconee New Member

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    it is without a doubt bad reporting, which is THE reason I take any media report as inaccurate, including many of the ones I have first hand knowledge of...I have written out stories myself for the press and watched them get butchered into something else....
    as far as the rest is concerned, sooner or later the FBI is going to have to disclose their evidence...
     
  6. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    From the reports I've seen, they are portraying this group as a "Christian" group that uses much of the same rhetoric that the KKK uses. While "Christian", they are exclusive. That means that not all Christians would be welcome, only their brand of Christian. They have also been portrayed to be "racist" in that if you are not white and do not belong to their church, then you are not worthy of joining their group. Does not sound "Christian" to me at all. The fact is that groups like this often use religion to justify their actions.

    If the allegations are true, then I can say that these kind of groups are not welcome in my America. His ex-wife was on Fox News stating that he is a brainwasher, not unlike several cult leaders in history. She also said that he was obsessed with the coming of the Antichrist and being prepared for a religious war. She said that recent actions by the current administration made him feel like his rights were being taken away and this was a major reason the group had turned more extreme recently.

    Now, I imagine the intel on the group was collected by a deep undercover agent and not just from the internet and fringe members. This is normally the case in a take down of this sort.

    It is way too early in this to be sure of the goings on and the legality of the warrants. Watch this one closely.
     
  7. user4

    user4 New Member

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    I don't try to make sense of militias or cults, but I take a personal interest in how LE handles it. If justice is to be "just" it must be righteous. You don't discard moral absolutes in the name of security. In other words, you can't lie or cheat to gain a conviction. Our LEOs are the arm of the law and they need to be counted on, not feared.
     
  8. ThorsHammer

    ThorsHammer New Member

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    I wholeheartedly agree, and I will abide until more information becomes available on the actions and intentions of the group as well has how law enforcement handled it. I would hope that recent agency debacles will have served as lessons that have been learned by the involved agencies. From what I've read and seen of these guys they do seem a tad off.
     
  9. sheriffoconee

    sheriffoconee New Member

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    I suggest that no media report is going to faithfully portray either the targets of an investigation, or the cops who do the investigation.
    I would rather trust a twenty year old condom than a media report...
    we need more FACTS before any decision can be rendered IMO
     
  10. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I hate it when nutcases call themselves Christians. Jesus said that we would know them by their fruits. I am a die hard, bible believing, follower of Jesus. I would never think of harming a police officer or anyone else for that matter. I carry a handgun for self defense. I pray that I will never have to use it. How do these people get other people to follow them?!

    I know a lot of Christians. I can't believe any of them would fall for something like this.

    These people make us all look like a bunch of nuts!
     
  11. ThorsHammer

    ThorsHammer New Member

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    Even though I am not as strong in my faith as you my friend I would NEVER confuse you with this type of person. That, of course, is just my personal opinion. I suppose other people may be more gullible and easier to inflame simply because they do not use rational thinking. Instead their inane fear of organized religion and their fear of firearms guide their thoughts. So I suppose some left-wing socialist gun hater will use this case to stir up dissent against gun owners AND Christians alike simply by association. Makes me sad.
     
  12. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    If these allegations are true, these clowns are "Christians" in the same way the Westboro Baptist Church pondscum are "Christians".

    However, it seems odd that they would be a militia group, ostensibly on alert, planning to kill law enforcement and have a fall-back plan, yet when presented with the opportunity to fire at law enforcement, they didn't. And, they didn't have a fall-back plan if they were being raided or otherwise compromised. (Calling a neighboring militia and asking for a place to hide ain't a great fall-back plan IMO.)

    This smells funny.
     
  13. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    Seems that the IED's was part of a plan to detonate them at funerals for LEO's they killed. Bad reporting in the IED's being randomly set or protection for a fall back zone.

    The story is in the Prosecuter and the Judge who advocated the warrants.
     
  14. sheriffoconee

    sheriffoconee New Member

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    they have already been indicted...which means that a grand jury already has heard some, if not most, of the Government's case....it wasn't a matter of a warrant application...

    we shall see....
     
  15. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    One guy still on the loose. Kid of the leader.

    The fact that a Grand Jury has already decided backs up that a deep undercover agent was there. These things are not just random targets. Be safe, amigos
     
  16. gorknoids

    gorknoids New Member

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    IED's are a federal offense. Intent, religious affiliation and all the rest are secondary. If they had them, it's a good bust. As for the insinuations posited by the media, the worse the story, the more copies you sell. I do find it odd (Or "did", as of this morning.) that they only arrested 3 people in all of those coordinated raids.
     
  17. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    8 arrested until 'bout an hour ago. The fugitive was caught, so 9 total.
     
  18. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    The FBI has likely infiltrated nearly every "militia" group in the country. They have not moved against the others because they have not done anything illegal or illegal enough to warrant a raid.

    Sounds like they had imminent fear they were about to act. If you do not think we are infiltrated here, think again. I would bet $100 the posts here are fairly regulary monitored. Type accordingly.

    The Feds SHOULD at least monitor sites like this. We do a good job (Slap on back) of banning the obvious nut jobs and reining in the ones on the fence. There are some openly hate based sites that deserve attention.

    IF, you are a member of a "Militia" or "Patriot" group, be VERY careful about your conduct. Do not engage in banter that could be interpreted as promoting armed dissent.
     
  19. user4

    user4 New Member

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    That's wisdom all the way around. Well said, sir