A different look at firearm sales

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by yankee, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. yankee

    yankee New Member

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    Here is a concept of how firearm sales could be. Please don’tj just jump out against this idea. I am throwing this out their for everyone to talk about.

    How about getting rid of all of these permits to purchase firearms? I live New Jersey. I had to go through the Firearms ID card process (it took 9 months to get mine!) and now I have to get permit so that I can purchase a handgun that I want. This is ridiculous. I am a law-abiding citizen and the government does not have the right to tell me if I can or cannot purchase a firearm. We all know this because we can read. This system needs to go away.

    On the other end of the spectrum, the dealer selling me the handgun or another firearm has a responsibility to take reasonable steps to make sure I am a law-abiding citizen. This reasonable step could be a NICS background check. I am not clear exactly what the NICS background check checks, but if it only checks guilty verdicts and innocents due to insanity, I would support it since a right is taken through a court of law. Also, the check is very quick, just a few minutes, from what I hear. It won’t take 9 months or, if New Jersey “Law Enforcement” obeyed the law, 30 days.

    Doing this nationwide would take away cities’ and states’ power from trumping the Second Amendment, as was in Chicago and D.C. People could purchase firearms everywhere in the country. And if enforced, it would stop criminals and the mentally insane from obtaining firearms; something both pro and anti-gun supporters want. Now anti-gun supporters don’t want anyone to have any firearms. They could move if they don't like the constitution. Please weigh in or correct me if I am wrong anywhere. I think this could bring some good discussion out.
     
  2. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    I bought a rifle today. In Virginia. Arm wrestled with the dealer over price, and we reached an agreement. Filled out the 4473, handed him my driver's license and my Virginia CCW. Went outside and had a smoke. Came back in, wrote him a check, shook hands, took my rifle and left.

    Translation- the problem is New Jersey. What I just described is most of the US. Suggest you start working to hire a decent Governor, and fire a few members of the legislature. :rolleyes:
     

  3. BombDoc

    BombDoc New Member

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    The issue you are having with Jersey is just that; a Jersey issue. As you said if they don't like something they can move. The same applies.

    The laws are different where I live so I have never dealt with that.

    That check is much like a local records check; however, it is not limited to local database restrictions. The database is federal and let's face it, every system has flaws. I know from personal experience of a few things that can delay you each time you purchase. I have learned to accept it and laugh when it doesn't delay me. People with certain security clearances almost always flag and get delayed. It does take a minute or two if all goes well.

    Of course checking for what you are mentioning regarding the sanity/mental health of a potential firearms purchaser is not going to happen anytime soon; if ever. The infrastructure is not in place to support such a check. HIPAA laws prohibit such a database from existing. The exception to that prohibition is when one's medical history becomes a part of their criminal history. This has been a big issue within several communities. Those proposed mental health restrictions would mean that many LEOs and Military Members would no longer be allowed to serve.
     
  4. Jo da Plumbr

    Jo da Plumbr New Member

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    Makes me rather suspicious when someone's first post is trying to stir things up in the legal active forum. Is this your only reason to come here? To try to start somthing?
     
  5. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    Good Question,
    So Yankee you ought to visit a free state, see how things get done somewhere the gov't doesnt hafta keep ya on a short leash
     
  6. doctherock

    doctherock New Member

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    I went into Washington state, right across the river from me, walked into big 5 sports, said I wanted the Mossberg 500 they had. In less than 15 minutes I was walking out with my prize. I love not living in one of the original colonies. You would think since you were on the East coast with all the history and what not with our founding fathers that you would have more freedom. I guess all those asshat politicians over there forget their roots.
     
  7. TimL2952

    TimL2952 New Member

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    Well....I live just outside Buffalo, New York and people are always calling NY "just as bad as California"...well let me tell you...they mean New York CITY......jersey is way worse...to get a handgun here you just need a handgun permit and a background check which still takes way too long....then ya walk in, give the guy the paperwork and some cash and ya head home...for a long gun its the same minus the paperwork.
     
  8. willfully armed

    willfully armed New Member

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    Agreed on this- if you don't like native law, MOVE!

    I am a fan of VA's ccw purchase. Hopefully KS will be soon to follow. Although I just learned of a KS FFL dealer who recently sold a gun sans a phonecall because the purchaser flashed a ccw permit. Which could ultimately lead to this dealer losing his license.
     
  9. Ubergopher

    Ubergopher New Member

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    My favorite part about the system we have now is that whole state's rights thing. I'm a big fan of that.
     
  10. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    I live in Illinois. I applied for my FOID card, got it in about 4 weeks and was able to go buy my gun.
     
  11. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    The folks that live in states (NJ, CA, IL, etc.) that pile on a bunch of crap have 2 choices:

    Move to a free state

    Elect a legislature that will remove the restrictions

    The majority of the country does not suffer from this stuff...
     
  12. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Why do we as a society tolerate violent convicted felons and those who are mentally handicapped and potentially prone to visiting violence on someone to walk among us? Get rid of the violent criminals and the crazies and the argument for any background checks or permits falls apart.

    There is absolutely no provision in the Constitution that permits the federal government to oversee who may and who may not acquire arms. 2A says quite the opposite, in fact. Most state constitutions have clauses with similar wording to 2A.

    What we lack is the testicular fortitude to challenge these laws through a series of court cases.
     
  13. yankee

    yankee New Member

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    I am for states rights too, but the states don't have the right to infringe the people's right to keep and bear arms due to the 10th Amendment.

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

    As for moving. I am currently in college so moving isn't the easiest thing for me. So I have gone with the election rout.

    I could see how it is suspious this being my first post, but I ussually talk to people I know about firearms. I wanted to get opinions from people not from Jersey. As I could see, this is mainly a Jersey problem.
     
  14. rjd3282

    rjd3282 New Member

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    You hit the perverbial nail on the head bkt. Tolerance is the problem and yet it's all we hear anymore. It's the mantra of the dems, libs and progressives. I have even seen tolerance rear it's ugly head among conservatives and gun owners and look where it's gotten us. And yet the dems, libs and progressives have zero tolerance for anyone who disagrees with them. I don't know who their PR guy is but he's a freaking genious.
     
  15. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    A-freakin-men.
     
  16. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    Also, to buy ammo, the same thing. Show the seller my FOID card and I buy my ammo. As far as I know, the only thing I can't do in Illinois is carry and I'm not ready for that responsibility yet. I know everyone says Illinois is a anti-gun state. Does that just mean you can't carry?
     
  17. Ubergopher

    Ubergopher New Member

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    [Devils advocate]
    The way I see it is the state's aren't infringing on the rights. What they're doing is regulating them. Much like they SHOULD require IDs for voting, making sure no one yells "Fire" in crowded theaters, requiring permits for rallies, etc etc etc.

    [/Devils advocate]

    My main argument against centralizing (which is another word for Federalizing) gun ownership laws is how easy it would be to change the laws if large groups of anti-2A types start to get elected to federal office like in the past it'd be a lot easier to get the law changed.

    This becomes especially important when you notice the way the left works compared to the right.

    The right for the most part doesn't get rid of laws what we do is change the laws to make them more efficient and cost less.

    On the other hand, the left will slowly edge their way towards what they want even if they only get a little bit at a time.
     
  18. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    Permits? What permits?

    In Ohio, like many states, I walk into the gun store. Fill out the background check form. Pay the man, and walk out with gun in hand. This goes for hand guns and long guns. I can purchase long guns the same way out of state in PA, W.Va. and KY. The only time I need a concealed carry permit in Ohio is to have one concealed and loaded in my vehicle.

    As others have stated, Jersey is a problem.

    WoC, yes Illinios is anti-gun. Had the Chicago ban held up, the whole state would not be far behind. To have to purchase a permit to even buy a gun or ammo is anti.
     
  19. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    ^^^ What he said. I can remember a dove hunting trip in college during which i realized i didn't have a shotgun with me; we stopped off for ammo at a pawn shop & i picked up a Mossy pump-12 while my buddy used their restroom and got his hunting license.

    Growing up here in MS, i honestly never realized the lengths some Americans must go to for their firearms fix.
     
  20. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    I must admit to have done worse things in my gun store, one thing I have learned with the ATF, if you don't make the same mistake twice, everything will be OK