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The guy with the Kimber was shooting at 16 yards, not 25.

I think these things happen on occasion, but luck is the driving factor. I believe factory ammo would group larger than the width of a pencil at 25 yards, so how can one be more accurate than the ammos inherent repeatability allows? Especially from a semi-auto, which is less accurate than a quality revolver.

Blue1
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
The guy with the Kimber was shooting at 16 yards, not 25.

I think these things happen on occasion, but luck is the driving factor. I believe factory ammo would group larger than the width of a pencil at 25 yards, so how can one be more accurate than the ammos inherent repeatability allows? Especially from a semi-auto, which is less accurate than a quality revolver.

Blue1
Using a .38 or 9mm (.357 diameter) you have approximately 3/4" play side to side (.357 X 2 = .714, 3/4" = .75"). With a .45, almost an inch.
Look at the second video, and you will see that the first two shots were very close together (vertical was longer than the horizontal), but either shot would break a pencil held vertically.

When you are at the range, have you ever had two bullet holes touching each other?
 
I'm trying to say I can't believe no one else calls anybody out on BS like this, geez.

This is like the cowboy movie where someone pulls out an old, abused, never cleaned .45 Colt after drinking for an hour in the saloon and shoots a cowboy off a horse galloping away at full speed 100 yards away one-handed.

But it's a piece of cake if you turn the cigarette so it's vertical:rolleyes:

Blue1
I could probably do the same thing with my 4" S&W Mod 19. I shoot the brass on spent 12 ga rounds at 25 yards all the time. Single action two hand grip, but no rest. Of course I have to use my "computer" glasses to get a clear picture of the front sight, but it's not that difficult.
 
Let me get this straight...you are retired, a beer drinker, and you hit a cigarette at 25 yards shooting a handgun freehand?:rolleyes:

Blue1
I believe Dan's story. I have seen some amazing shooting out of Stalkingbear in Kentucky. He has some incredible accuracy. Dan isn't the type to make up a story for the adulations.
 
It can be done. When I was young and naïve, having no idea what was considered a long distance for the shot I was taking, My dad used to set up shots like this for me all the time. No cigarets though. He never said anything about the distance and it wasn't until I heard him bragging to his friends about the distance of my shots that I knew it was a hard shot. I was young, great eye sight, and full of confidence. I have tried those same shots as an adult and when I do make it luck probably plays a big roll. Now one of my eyes is set for distance and the other for reading and I KNOW it's a hard shot.
I guess all I'm saying is it can be done with some skill, belief, and luck.
 
The guy with the Kimber was shooting at 16 yards, not 25.

I think these things happen on occasion, but luck is the driving factor. I believe factory ammo would group larger than the width of a pencil at 25 yards, so how can one be more accurate than the ammos inherent repeatability allows? Especially from a semi-auto, which is less accurate than a quality revolver.

Blue1
I was with ya Blue until you came out w the revolver > auto accuracy comment. I find that harder to believe than a lucky shot at 25 yds. I've seen people shoot golf balls w handguns - no idea what they are sighting on - personally, I find it very difficult to hit what I can not see. But if I have a spotter, I can dial it in some.
 
I was with ya Blue until you came out w the revolver > auto accuracy comment. I find that harder to believe than a lucky shot at 25 yds.
Revolvers are definitely more accurate than semi-autos of the same barrel length.

Revolver barrels are fixed, with sights fixed on the barrel. Semi-auto barrels have to lock up, and the sights are not on the barrel, they are on the slide. The difference in accuracy versus the revolver grows larger as both guns wear though use.

Sight radius is generally a little longer on revolvers as well, again given same length barrels.

Blue1
 
I do, good on you, completely agree.
Are you not the guy who was claiming in another thread to split cards? Why should everyone believe that you can do that, but Dan cannot hit a cigarette? If I have you confused with someone else, I apologize in advance.
 
Custom shops often number the cylinder chambers because there is often one or two which open up the group considerably. Not necessary on autos. I do agree w sight radius so we should try to keep barrel length similar.

I've been watching 22 bullseye at my club and what little I could find of coverage at-the Olympics. Everyone uses autos - modified Rugers at my club n Hammerli at Olympics. No revolvers were even represented. If the platform has an innate competitive advantage, why doesn't it dominate ?

This question was A hot topic way back when I was a kid along w the reliability question. We can solve this debate the old fashioned way - at the range. Pick a Mod, preferably one who owns and likes to shoot revolvers. I'll pick one as well - C3 w 1911 of his choice or maybe his BHP ? His call.

Let the Mods pick their own ammo - slow fire at 50' or w you prefer 25 yds ? We may have to start our own thread to avoid completely hi-jacking this one.

In any event, an old fashioned revolver vs auto shoot out should be interesting and generate some talking points - why we have a forum to bring these & other topics to light.

No sour grapes - if the Mods agree to shoot, the least we can do is to agree to live w the results - whatever they may be. :D
 
JD1969 said:
Are you not the guy who was claiming in another thread to split cards? Why should everyone believe that you can do that, but Dan cannot hit a cigarette? If I have you confused with someone else, I apologize in advance.
No he was the one who called BS on it.
 
I believe Danf_fl completley. These shots can happen. A little skill, and a little luck, and it could happen to anyone.

The forum skeptics like BeyondTheBox will always call BS, that's not an insult to them, they are just more skeptical than the average bear.
 
I watched Downsouth's teenage daughter shoot a 12 gauge hull at maybe 15 yards with a Walther p22. While it was floating and bobbing in a pond.

And she did it regularly that range trip.

Call me a liar.
 
I also believe that the shot would be very good, but not unbelievable. What would be excellent would be seeing it repeated.

I have a young co-worker who has told the story of "his buddy" who can hit a Coke bottle at 100 yards with a .38 snubby every time. The really hard thing to believe about that story is that the kid has a "buddy".
 
trip286 said:
I watched Downsouth's teenage daughter shoot a 12 gauge hull at maybe 15 yards with a Walther p22. While it was floating and bobbing in a pond.

And she did it regularly that range trip.

Call me a liar.
..........liar..........

What?

You dared me.

I believe you though. Lmao.
 
Custom shops often number the cylinder chambers because there is often one or two which open up the group considerably. Not necessary on autos. I do agree w sight radius so we should try to keep barrel length similar.

I've been watching 22 bullseye at my club and what little I could find of coverage at-the Olympics. Everyone uses autos - modified Rugers at my club n Hammerli at Olympics. No revolvers were even represented. If the platform has an innate competitive advantage, why doesn't it dominate ?

This question was A hot topic way back when I was a kid along w the reliability question. We can solve this debate the old fashioned way - at the range. Pick a Mod, preferably one who owns and likes to shoot revolvers. I'll pick one as well - C3 w 1911 of his choice or maybe his BHP ? His call.

Let the Mods pick their own ammo - slow fire at 50' or w you prefer 25 yds ? We may have to start our own thread to avoid completely hi-jacking this one.

In any event, an old fashioned revolver vs auto shoot out should be interesting and generate some talking points - why we have a forum to bring these & other topics to light.

No sour grapes - if the Mods agree to shoot, the least we can do is to agree to live w the results - whatever they may be. :D
Shooting contests are a test of shooters, not firearms.

The contests you refer to that everyone uses semi-autos are somewhat rapid fire, correct? Switching targets and quick target acquisition? I would concede that the double-action trigger pull would put a revolver at a disadvantage. Shooting when there is time to cock a revolver and shoot single-action (as the semi-autos operate) would let the revolvers innate accuracy advantages come through.

Blue1
 
to Dan: someone used the liar word here, which is a harsh word, I never called you a liar (and I know you never accused me of that), I just know sometimes people embellish stories a little; we're cool, right?

Didn't mean to come off as rude or trollish.

I'm enjoying the revolver vs. semi-auto debate (I own both) and if someone can show me I'm wrong, I'd appreciate being educated.

Blue 1
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
I never said that luck was not part of it.

There are targets that have been posted in the FTF that have the center shot out. I do not know what distances.

Shooting is a discipline. Some are satisfied with a group of 4" at 25 yards from their firearms that were designed as "combat" pistols. Some are satisfied with a group of 12" at 25 yards.

Different firearms will give different results. A "combat" firearm is not expected to have the accuracy of a "target" firearm. Most firearms discussed, owned, wanted, or sold in this forum were designed as originally as "combat" (1911, Glock, CZ as examples).

Skill levels are different for people. Some mods are inexperienced tyros at shooting when compared to others (no slam intended, they all are doing a great job here). A beginner will be happy just to hit the target. Some of us are happy to hit within the 7 ring with a couple of bulls-eye's. Others have a bad day if one shot is in the nine ring while the rest are bull's.

Believe it or not. That is your choice. Your opinion is probably based on your experience at the range with your firearm with your accepted accuracy.

Blue1, no apology needed. We're cool. For info, every time I go to the range, I put some clay pigeons out at 100 yards. While I do not hit one with every shot, I have busted quite a few. And most of the time it is done after walking the rounds in to the clay pigeon.
 
After watching an episode of Impossible Shots a couple of years ago where one of the regulars was shooting playing cards in half with a 1911 my two sons decided to try it out. First shot my youngest son hit the card but only cut it partway in half, he had it the next shot though. Within a few shots both of them were doing it consistently. I forget the range they were shooting at, but I believe it was 25 yards. Oh, did I mention they were shooting .22LR instead of .45 ACP? They were surprised at how easy it is.
 
Great shot Dan. That one requires both skill and luck.

When I was in my early teens, a neighbor of mine taught me how to light a strike anywhere match with a bullet. We started out with my dad's old Marlin bolt action .22 rifle (not sure of the model, I would have to ask the old man) at 10 yards, using .22 shorts. Dad and I stated practicing the same shot with his 1911, and after a month of trying (hit too low, goodbye match, too high, clean miss), we got to where we could do it to 2 to 3 matches out of every 5. Sadly, I can no longer find strike anywheres anymore. That is one trick shot that I wish I could pass on to my daughter. She is already good enough to drive a nail with my grandfather's Winchester model 67. I think we'll try the cigarette trick during the next range session. If we do, I'll post a range roport for all to enjoy.

Once again, Great shot!
 
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