A .308 Class Round at 1000 Yards Is Like a .22LR at __ Yards?

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by Joshua M. Smith, Jul 17, 2011.

  1. Joshua M. Smith

    Joshua M. Smith New Member

    259
    0
    0
    Hello,

    I do not own a precision 'scoped .308 yet. Around here, open sights work better for anything above varmint rounds.

    I can do all the math I want, but it doesn't translate into the real world well from what I can tell.

    So, if you were going to try to compare apples to oranges, how would you complete the sentence, "Shooting a .308 heavy barreled precision rifle at 1000 yards is like shooting a precision .22LR at _?_ yards"?

    Further comparing, how would you complete the sentence, "Hitting a man-sized torso target at 1000 yards with a .308 heavy barreled precision rifle is like hitting a squirrel in the heart/lungs with a precision .22 LR at _?_ yards"?

    While not directly comparable, I'd be interested in your thoughts.

    Thanks!

    Josh
     
  2. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

    21,340
    206
    63
    Well, more like comparing apples to asparagus, BUT.....

    The 1000 meter shot is going to require several things- the ability read read wind, mirage, range, and motion. Wind can not only move the bullet laterally a LOT at that range (about 54 inches for a 5 mph crosswind), but how does a headwind or following wind affect flight time? Mirage- you are shooting at where the target ain't. Range- at extreme ranges, the parabola starts to resemble a rainbow- you are holding well- and I mean WELL- above the target. Motion- is your target asleep? Stuck knee deep in mud? Flight time is about 1.7 seconds. You need to shoot at where target WILL be. Also- at 1000 meters, MOST .308 is verging on dropping back thru the sound barrier- instability when that happens.


    Those are factors that just don't apply (that much) to the squirrel and .22 equation. Purely in terms of relative difficulty, MAYE a kill shot on a squirrel at 200 yards. MAYBE. Some of the F class shooters will be along in a bit, and give you a more educated answer. But a good question.
     

  3. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

    5,250
    0
    0
    I would say they are not comparable because the variables involved are very different. The .22LR round is going to be the failure in the system before the other equipment (Scope/Rifle) is pushed past it's limit. Where as the 1,000 yard round is quite capable of 1,000 yard hits reliably with the right equipment.
     
  4. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper New Member

    3,659
    0
    0
    I had always heard that the time of flight, wind drift, and drop of a .22LR at 200yards is very similar to 308 @1000.
    I don't know if true, but it certainly is challenging and is a lot of fun:)
     
  5. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

    5,549
    0
    0
    .308Win goes subsonic at around 800, give or take, depending on the bullet used. It will get to 1,000 but is not a good choice for 1,000.

    A good .308Win will make for a wonderful 600 yard rifle, and a passable 800 yard rifle, but the energy bleed allows for lots of environmental influence that applies less to, say, one of the .300 mags.

    Equal to the performance drop of a good .22lr round at 150-200? Seems about right.
     
  6. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

    8,409
    1
    0
    I don't know, I keep hearing about "1000 yards" this, and "800 yards"

    that.

    Anybody shot MOA at 100 yards? 200 yards?

    Can you even SEE a standard target at 1000 yards

    with your naked eye?

    I'll be danged if I could hit a barn at 1000 yards.

    I'm still working on accuracy at 50 and 100 yards.
     
  7. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

    21,340
    206
    63
    Well, I have at least a couple of .22 LR rifles that will hold 1 MOA at 100 yards if I do my part, and have met MUCH better shooters than I am. Have a .17 HMR that will shoot about 1/3 of 1 MOA at 100.

    If I am hitting a 10 inch target at 1000 yards, that is ABOUT 1 MOA. Yes, have done that- not with every round. When Carlos Hathcock won the Camp Peary championship, he fired a perfect 10 at 1000 yards. And the older gent who is the resident gunsmith at our range, and builds long range rifles for a living- I would NOT let him shoot at me at 1000- wind and mirage be damned! Have seen too many of his targets! :eek:
     
  8. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

    2,523
    0
    0
    therewolf, your honesty is refreshing. I was out shooting my AR with a new 4x scope. The 4" circle at 200 yards totally disappeared behind my reticle's 1MOA dot. Not to mention my movement made me time a shot for that natural pause. A 1000 yard target would just disappear in all but, what, 50x scopes?
     
  9. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

    5,549
    0
    0
    I shoot 1,000 yards with a .308 pretty regularly. I've used it out to 1,200, but frankly it sucks at 1,200. .300 Win Mag is the way to go after 800.

    My rifle shoots 5/8 MOA for 5 shot groups with Black Hills Match. I don't bother to load for my M14s.

    Rifle is an LRB M25 in a JAE Gen2 stock with an IOR scope.

    Target at 1,000 yards is a steel plate roughly 13"x13".

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So I'm well aware of the limitations of the .308 Win, as well as the capabilities.

    And I have .22s that will easily do MOA.
     
  10. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

    8,409
    1
    0
    That's cool, M14sRock.

    I don't know, OP, you'll have to find out for yourself what the outer limits

    on 22LR are. I'm sure you could push it to 150-200 yards,easy.

    I'm still working on a MOA at 100 yards. It's fun.
     
  11. topcat990

    topcat990 New Member

    60
    0
    0
    nice rig and great set up. i shoot a barett 50 at 1k with lepold glass and bors system. i can currently hit the target at that range but i have a long way to go. have a fn scar in 308 that works great out to 600-700 yards.
    if you really want to learn long range shooting find yourself a good coach and practice a lot. i have a coach who is a marine sniper and he has helped all of my shooting greatly.

     
  12. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    Only 13 months old? Not quite a record, but it's in the top 25. :eek:
     
  13. gunnut07

    gunnut07 New Member

    944
    0
    0
    I shoot local f-class matches in my area. I hang out with a few guys that just made the US National F-Class Team. Sure you can see targets at 1k. We even hit them from time to time. As for subsonic at 800 That's odd, when I work the pits there are plenty of sonic cracks as the bullets go over head. If you load the right bullet with the right powder you can keep a 308 super sonic to 1k.