9x19mm CIP,SAAMI,NATO?

Discussion in 'Semi-Auto Handguns' started by KalashnikovJosh, Jun 1, 2010.

  1. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    So I've just become aware of something.
    In America,we use SAAMI specifications to load our domestic ammo,and in Europe,they use CIP and the military uses NATO.

    Comparing the different specs for 9 para has lead me to believe that we under-load ammo quite a bit.

    Any input?
     
  2. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes, we do. Concept being that there are very old guns out there, and any cartridge loaded to SAAMI specs should be safe to shoot in a gun marked with that caliber. Load tables written by lawyers.

    Having said that, there is 9mm Para ammo made for submachineguns you would be NUTS to shoot in a Luger pistol. I handload .357 rounds that, from a 2 inch Model 60, would sprain something, and probably split your lip. But from a VERY heavy revolver, they just make shooters 4 points down the firing line hide under the benchrest, and whimper.

    PS- I have ONE round of .45 ACP Remington-Thompson- made for use in the SMG in the mid 30s. Would never want to see that fired in a handgun. From the SMG was rated at 1050 ft lbs.
     

  3. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    YOWZA!!!!:eek:

    I've noticed that for the price,you can get a much better deal on 9 para ammo if you buy it from European manufacturers,for example-the Remington Golden Sabre 124grain +p doing 1180fps is like 15 bucks for a box of 25 rounds,for a couple bucks more you can get a box of 50 rounds Fiocchi loaded with Hornady XTPs that go 1290fps(no +p)-

    http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM414-5.html

    http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=123193

    I like the truncated cone design from fiocchi,and it is even less $-

    http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=119253

    but then I come across this-

    http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM4310-1.html

    whats up with NATO specs?is it sort of like the CIP,or a different spec altogether?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2010
  4. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    NATO spec is, per my very limited understanding, a common loading for ammo intended for use by NATO forces, to provide commonality of ammo- so that the Canadian can use a Brtish 9mm pistol, and safely load Amercian ammo- and the gunner on the 7.62 NATO MG does not have to worry about a suddenly different trajectory when he pops open a case of ammo made by someone else. What we called a STANAG- Stand NATO Agreement- may or may not coincide with SAAMI or CIP.
     
  5. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Is NATO spec 9mm para closer to CIP or SAAMI,do you know?
     
  6. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Josh- have not a clue. Seems relatively weak to me, would think NATO is closer to SAAMI, but no real expertise. Regrets-
     
  7. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Hmmm....I'll have to stick with European 9mm ammo if thats the case.Thanks for all your input c3shooter.