7.62x25 Tokarev comparison with .357 Magnum

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by KalashnikovJosh, Nov 3, 2011.

  1. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Ok first of all I said "COMPARISON WITH" and not "VERSUS".

    I'm not trying to start a caliber war here.

    I just thought I'd post this as a FYI kinda thing for anyone interested.

    Anyway,I was looking at some numbers for 7.62x25 tokarev,specifically this load here-

    7.62x25 90g XTP-HP

    At the stated velocity of 1650fps,this should produce 544 or so ftlbs of energy.

    Now,I'm not saying that ftlbs is the holy grail of ballistic performance,but the highly praised terminal ballistic effectiveness of 125gr JHP loads in .357 magnum,a typical example here-

    Speer 125 grain Gold Dot hollowpoint

    Is actually pretty similar to the tokarev load I mention above,which BTW,is my preferred JHP load for the caliber.

    The Gold Dot .357 Mag does around 570 ftlbs from a 4 inch barrel.

    Expansion is different,with the tokarev load (in a lower velocity) giving an expanded diameter of 0.498 here-

    Three handloaded Hornady XTP bullets of various weights (7.62x25 tok)

    While the .357 gives an average of 0.651.

    difference is 0.153.

    And of course,weight is different,but penetration of each in gelatin,regarding the Hornady 90gr XTP in Tok and the Magnum,actually favors the magnum,interestingly enough,as 7.62x25 tokarev is known for its sheer penetrative power and has been regarded by knowledgeable people as a risky caliber for self defense chores because of this.
    In fact,some could say the .357 load being reviewed here is more of a risk of overpentration than the tok load is.

    The magnum goes around 16 inches and the tok penetrates above 12 inches.

    NOW,I'M NOT ABOUT TO SAY that the 7.62x25 tokarev is more powerful than the .357 magnum.
    Its not.
    .357 Magnum can be loaded to blow the doors off the Tokarev.

    HOWEVER,that being said- the typical 125grain .357 magnum load as I've used for my example has been touted as an excellent cartridge for self defense,and the ballistics,tho favoring the .357 by a decent margin,are really not that dissimilar.


    Personally,I feel quite confident with this particular Tokarev load in my CZ52,and I have a few small advantages,certainly which can be negated with training and experience,over a typical.357 revolver-

    I have 9 shots on a cocked and locked magazine fed system with a single action trigger pull vs. 6 shots on a double action revolver that I,myself,cannot load or fire as rapidly as a box magazine fed weapon with a single action trigger pull.

    Yes,I am aware that you can get a semiautomatic pistol chambered in .357 magnum.

    And YES,I'm well aware that the CZ52 can be iffy cocked and locked because on some of the more abused examples of the surplus pistols imported,the decocker acts like a trigger,and can be accidentally tripped in normal carry.
    I've thoroughly tested my decocker by pulling bullet and powder out of some current manufacture brass cased ammo and dropped the hammer on the primers of at least 3 cases REPEATEDLY with the decocker to ensure its reliability.

    I STRONGLY suggest that if you want to use your CZ52 the same as I do,you do the same.You should probably also test the functionality of the decocker every time you go to the range with your CZ52,to ensure it does not become a problem.

    But for those of us who managed to get ahold of a good,fully functional example of the CZ52,it can be carried cocked and locked and has a relatively similar safety switch to the 1911/Hi-Power- being positioned in such a way that it can easily be manipulated by the thumb of the shooting hand; albeit the switch is "backwards" and a bit smaller and it has a de-cocker- which if it works properly,is actually a bonus.

    The CZ52,IMHO,is fast and accurate and with good loads in a good pistol,makes a very adequate personal defensive weapon.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011
  2. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    I'm so glad someone took the work out of it for me. I've been curious about this very thing ever since I saw a CZ52 in a local pawn shop for $200. Alas, it's gone now. I didn't pick it up because I knew nothing about it, and didn't really have the extra cash (I had enough cash, but money would have been uncomfortably tight if I'd spent it).

    Thank you very much for this comparison.
     

  3. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Your welcome.

    If you want more info just search for "CZ52" on the web....theres lots of info out there on this pistol.
     
  4. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Yeah, I've googled the snot out of it since I walked away from it. I so wish I'd have snatched it up, but it would have been sketchy trying to pay for groceries and gas.
     
  5. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Well you might have done yourself a favor.

    Alot of these pistols had problems and its almost like winning the lottery to get one that is fully functional,like with the decocker and everything.
     
  6. Alchemist

    Alchemist New Member

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    FWIW, I have both CZ52 and Zastava M57 (Both excl. condition)... I prefer the M57's shootability/ergonomics and have also had better success with it regarding hotter loads.
    My M57, however, doesn't like HP's at all.

    My $.02...
     
  7. 303tom

    303tom Well-Known Member

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    That`s easy the .357 mag. will not penetrate body armor.
     
  8. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    UNLESS it is specifically loaded with a projectile to do so,then .357 magnum is perfectly capable of that too.

    But thats besides the point of the post,remember this wasn't a "this vs. that caliber" post.

    I just wanted to see what people's thoughts were regarding the 7.62x25 as a self defense load,when coupled with an appropriate jacketed hollow point projectile,and compared to one of the all time American favorite self defense calibers and the load that its most renowned in this capacity with.

    And it doesn't look to shabby,at least on paper.....:cool:
     
  9. 303tom

    303tom Well-Known Member

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    Its better than a sharp stick !
     
  10. hardluk1

    hardluk1 Active Member

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    I would bet that a 357 loaded with a 180gr HC at 1500fps might leave you in the hospital even with out passing thru body armor with a brused heart. But a 150 gr fmj-rn at 1700fps bullet might be hard on a vest.
     
  11. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Ill bet money a .22 puts people in the hospital. Just sayin.
     
  12. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    There is one case where a state trooper was killed by a guy with a .22 derringer,after having unloaded a .357 into him.

    It happens.
     
  13. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    And what case was that? Randy Coates was shot by a .32 after shooting the bad guy 5 times with .38 Spl lead SWC's.
     
  14. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Last edited: Dec 23, 2011
  15. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Semi auto in .357 Sig covers it. Mag fed .357 125grn ballistics.
    .357 Sig 125grn GDHP 506fp/1350fps
    .357 Sig 125grn DTap 584fp/1450fps
     
  16. headhunter

    headhunter Member

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    Quoting published ballistics is nice, however, not necessarily accurate. A really revealing article is in the 12 edition of the Speer reloading manual. It is written by a man by the name of Dave Andrews and is entitled, "Why Ballisticians Get Grey" and is found on page 434. If you are serious about handgun performance, it is worth the time to read it.
     
  17. WilliamTF

    WilliamTF New Member

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    I've always been kinda intrigued by this caliber if it would work and it was available Id get a conversion barrel for my XD. I've heard ammo is cheap , but its hard to find any factory ammo that's not fmj
     
  18. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    This is why I like BrassFetcher.;)
    He does his tests in a scientifically repeatable manner and uses a chrony.
     
  19. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Yeah I like the .357 Sig too!:D