5.56 info

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by zack02, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. zack02

    zack02 New Member

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    What's the point of green tip ammo?? What's about the effective range of an AR15 with 5.56 ? And what is 5.56 usually used for, hunting wise.. Thanks
    -Zack
     
  2. TexasGunner

    TexasGunner New Member

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    The green is just a paint to signify that the 62 grain full copper jacket has a steel core in it which aids in penetration. 5.56 is the military version of the .223 and is used by the military to hunt people .ie insurgents.

    Now the .223 is used on everything from prairie dogs and coyotes when loaded with something like a 40 grain Varmagedon by Nossler to whitetail deer with a heavier V-Max bullet.

    I myself dropped a 230 lb mule deer at about 50 yards with my mini 14 and a 55 grain full metal jacket. It only took 2 steps before it dropped.

    Shot placement is the key if you plan to hunt with 223 or 5.56.
     

  3. 70cuda383

    70cuda383 New Member

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    Effective range of the AR platform, as designated by the US Military depends on what variant you have. if it's like the old M16s with a 20" barrel, they are good for 500-ish yards on a man, or 800 on an "area" like a tent or a vehicle. they say "effective range" means "the average shooter can hit his target 50% of the time"

    the M4 variants with the 16" barrel they reduce that to about 350-400 yards efective range.



    Now, when you want to start talking actual energy delivered to target at distance, I can't help you there, I don't know how much velocity the round looses at those ranges, and what it will still be able to kill. A lot of what I've read has said that to drop a deer with a .223 you need to have good shot placement, and be fairly close --250 yards or less
     
  4. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    There really isnt much of a point to the popular and prestigious green tip 62gr with penetrator Ammo.
    This Ammo was introduced to the US military during the cold war so that, if fired from a M249 SAW, it could penetrate the Warsaw Pact Steel hjelmets and flak jackets of thier time at 1000 yards.

    Thats the only reason the penetrator is in there:
    Warsaw pact flak jackets/helmets, needed to penetrate at 1000 yds with a M249 SAW

    Since none of us are using a M249 SAW and aiming at WARPAC troops with it, at 1000 yds the utility of penetrator ammo over the original M193 style (55 gr) is quite dubious.

    Other than the coolness factor of being able to say you are using the "current military issue" style of Ammo.
     
  5. blucoondawg

    blucoondawg New Member

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    Just a word of advice to the OP who appears to be new to some if not all guns and hunting, as TexasGunner said, if hunting larger game with 223 shot placement is important, however I wouldn't ever recommend using it elk hunting, sure it would kill the elk if you are close enough and hit it right but it isn't ideal.

    As to hunting large game with a full metal jacket, this, in my opinion is not only illegal in some areas but it is also highly unethical as far as I am concerned. The fmj doesn't expand like a soft point or hollow point, it keeps its form and punches a hole through the animal therefore it doesn't transfer its energy into the animal which is what happens with hunting ammo, that energy transfer does massive damage to the animal and helps to humanely kill it. If you use fmj you run the possibility of punching a small hole and missing a vital or even if you hit something the animal most likely will still run off and you will have a minimal to nonexistent blood trail to follow. Most hunting with fmj rounds is limited to varmints or fur bearing animals, shooting a coyote and not totally wrecking the hide, for example.
     
  6. zack02

    zack02 New Member

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    So can civilians buy 5.56 ammo? And thanks for the responses. Much appreciated.
     
  7. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    In my opinion, the reason green-tip penetrator ammo has proliferated lately is because of the attractive price over other FMJ offerings. Until recently, XM855 was only about 30 cents a round.

    I, for one, bought a bunch because of the Federal ammo cans that came with it, NOT because of any penetrating capabilities.

    Zack, your question is very odd. Shouldn't civilians be able to buy any and every kind of ammunition the military can? 5.56x45mm is not some amazing round that should have any controls. It is basically the 9mm of the rifle world...plain vanilla.
     
  8. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You can shoot 223 ammo in a 5.56x45 but do not shoot 5.56x45 in a 223. It will fit but there are pressure and chamber differences that can be unsafe. Also it you shoot steel cased ammo, clean the chamber thoroughly before shooting brass or you may stick a shell.
     
  9. clr8ter

    clr8ter New Member

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    Seems like the people who know nothing about guns, but "have to have one now, for what reason I don't know", are showing up. Internet research is their friend.
     
  10. undumb

    undumb New Member

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    I've noticed that most of them just want to know the resale value.
     
  11. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Yes and no. Sale of the actual ammo was restricted many years ago. The actual stuff that is made for the military and meets the standards is not sold directly to civilians. Stuff that is done as over runs has cosmetic defects or fails to meet the exact standards can be sold to civilians. This is where people will see an "X" in front of the military designation for a given round. For example Federal (the company that currently runs the government contract for ammo produced at the Lake City plant) will release lots of XM193 (55 gr FMJ) and XM855 (Green tipped FMJ penetrator rounds), that were not picked up for the contract purchase. They will release some in boxes marked with the XM designation, and others make it into their American Eagle line of ammo. The XM versions use military componenets, but certain lots may not meet accuracy, velocity, or standard deviation criteria for the contract specifications. They may have brass that didn't meet annealing standards, or has tarnish spots or other cosmetic defects. So it may not be quite as hot or accurate as the stuff that makes the cut, but it is usually fine for plinking, and training and often is still at a higher standard than some other commercial ammo that doesn't need to meet a contract standard.
     
  12. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    I took it that the OP was asking if mere civilians were allowed to buy such ray-gun ammunition that only trained government operators should be allowed to possess.

    I hope I'm wrong.
     
  13. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    if i was wanting to do some armor penetration i sure wouldnt use a 223/556 green tip.

    there are much better calibers like 30-06 300winmag 338 lapua 458Lott 50bmg etc. pretty much any other round for rifles out there dramatically outperforms 223/556.

    if im being shot at with a rifle 556/223 is what i hope they are using as its pretty aweful at penetrating cover regardless of bullet design.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2013
  14. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    A .30-30 will defeat most soft body armor. So, it's not like the ability didn't exist before. Just not in the 5.56 at the ranges desired at that point in the Cold War for the armor of the time.
     
  15. zack02

    zack02 New Member

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    What if I want to take coyotes and white tail with a 5.56 from 50-450 yards ? What grain should I use
     
  16. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    I limit my shots on 'yotes to 250-300yds, because the vitals are small.

    With a .223 hunting load I would limit shots on deer to even closer shots and use a bonded soft point or hollow point bullet in 64-75gr If your rifling twist can stabilize the 75 grainers. A 1:9 twist should easily stabilize up to 68 gr bullets and some will handle 75 grain bullets while some won't.
     
  17. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Zack, go buy a pack of small paper plates. Dessert plates. They are about 5 inches across.

    Now, at what range can you HIT- with every shot- that plate- using the firing position you will be using in the field? That plate is about the size of the kill zone on a deer. Coyote is about 3-4 inches. Try that and tell us how you feel about 450 yd shot. How good are you at reading wind, and estimating range, and speed at which a moving animal is moving (leading the target)
     
  18. zack02

    zack02 New Member

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    Gotcha ok thanks I'll give it a try .im new to AR's and trying to gather as much info on 5.56 as I can
     
  19. ScottA

    ScottA FAA licensed bugsmasher Lifetime Supporter

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    This forum is internet research. I am glad they are here asking questions.