45ACP for Bear protection

Discussion in '1911 Forum' started by MaineMan, Jun 23, 2011.

  1. MaineMan

    MaineMan New Member

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    I'm thinking about using my 5 inch PT1911 45ACP as a side arm during bear hunting this season. I would be using Buffalo Bore +P loads, either hollow points or the hard cast 255gr flat nose.

    1911 (5 inch) - 1078 fps (200gr. Jhp)
    1911 (5 inch) - 960 fps (255gr. HARD CAST-FLAT NOSE)

    The JHP load is designed for defense against humans, while the non-expanding load is designed to shoot through large shoulder bones or the skull on a black bear.

    Any thoughts? Is the ACP to mild for this application.
     
  2. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    IMHO, yes, the .45 ACP is too light for this. However, if it is a case of go with what ya got, the heaviest solid that YOUR gun will cycle 100.00000% of the time.
     

  3. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Thank you for taking a stand against the ursine menace. I wish you the very best of luck in killing as many as possible.

    Have you heard of that .460 Roland conversion for 1911's? It might have a bit more bear-punching power.
    http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f35/big-thunder-ii-vs-fenrir-1911-460-rowland-build-off-10752/
    http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=12543/guntechdetail/The__460_Rowland_Conversion
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2011
  4. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    460 rowland would definately core a bear stem to stern with fmj.

    i gotta go do a bbq for our employees in new hampshire this year im taking my SA 1911A1 in 460 rowland in case a bear gets interested during the overnite brisket cook. ill put him on the smoker too!!
     
  5. mes227

    mes227 New Member

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    The .45 acp is just too light to be hunting even black bear with. Not that you can't kill one with it, just that it's far more likely to only wound it; a bit like hunting deer with a .22. The .460 Rowland, which essentially produces .44 Mag ballistics, is a fair choice for black bear (though barely) but too small for browns. A better choice is something in the class of the .445 SuperMag, .480 Ruger, .454 Casull, .460 Mag or .500 Mag.
     
  6. freefall

    freefall New Member

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    If I anticipate a possibility of bear problems I carry my .44 mag and generally a serious long gun. I'd rather have a .475 Linebaugh if I had the financial resources of a Rockefeller or JD.;)
     
  7. Gloves

    Gloves New Member

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    When looking at hunting rounds i've stopped looking at bore size/fps and grain.
    Mostly just looking at ft-lbs. Those .45 ACP +P 255gr rounds claim an amazing
    815 ft-lbs out the muzzle!

    HOLEY SMOKES! That's a great deal of power for the .45 ACP.

    If I had to choose a round, that'll probably stop a bear in 2-3 shots of any
    short of decent placement. (i have no experience in this, just guessing if
    you get past the thick skin, tough muscle, dense bone and into a vital
    organ you're good.)

    At 50 yards it still has 675 ft lbs.
    (my American Eagle Ammunition 45 ACP 230 Grain rounds have a claim of 369 ft lbs)


    So you have nearly twice the muzzle energy of my target ammo at FIFTY-YARDS!

    A .357 Mag 180 gr has somewhere around 580 - 600 ft lbs. ...
    SO your ammo is 1 & 1/3 harder hitting than a .357 mag!

    Da-D*****MN!!! I got to try that out if it doesn't blow my gun into fine shrapnel splinters! :D


    Does everyone believe these numbers? Because if they do I'm buying a
    case or two of this hot load, going to blow some S***T Up! I'm not sure
    why i bought the .458 Socom if they make this kind of ammo for my 1911.
     
  8. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

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    There was another thread on this a while back I think. Anyway, the 45acp is hard pressed to do much good to bears, hogs it's a different story.. The .460 Rowland will likely shorten the life of your PT1911, drastically. That's why I havent bothered with it for my PT1911, though I do plan to get a kit one day for a Springfield 1911, just to have fun hunting hogs with. Personally I wouldn't trust the 460 With brown bear either because from what I can tell a hot loaded 44 mag still outranks the best 460 Rowland load. The question is, how much are you willing to pay for peace of mind?
     
  9. MaineMan

    MaineMan New Member

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    I have fired 8 rounds of the 255 hardcast and you can feel the difference between these rounds and standard loads.
     
  10. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    I also thought that the manufacturer does not suggest the .460 on a Taurus.
     
  11. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    458 socom is far superior to 44mag or 460 rowland. I load my socom for hunting using bullets designed specifically for big game rifles they retain weight with proper expansion on even the toughest critters. There is a big performance gap that the 44 and 460 cant compete with when you use quality .458 bullets with the socom.
     
  12. Sonnypie

    Sonnypie New Member

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    You could put Nitro-methane fuel in Mom's car, but it might break it.
    Can you feel the action bottoming out? I'd bet it is. :(

    Look, if given the choice of a 1911 Government Model 45 ACP, with a wounded bear on top of me,
    Over a rock, with a wounded bear on top of me,
    You bet! I'd do whatever I could to use the 45.
    But, it wouldn't be my first choice.

    My first choice would be to not let the situation get that close. So either make your first shot count, or don't provoke the need.

    [ame="http://youtu.be/8gciFoEbOA8"]You're gonna need a bigger boat.[/ame]
     
  13. Gloves

    Gloves New Member

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    I know, off topic, I load mine with hunting rounds too =)
    (I have yet to hut with it, or zero it... In good time)
    [​IMG]

    BACK ON TOPIC:
    The question I have is...
    My 1911 has a pipe that fits a .451 diameter bullet quite nicely.
    So how is it that a .460 diameter bullet can squeeze through the same pipe?
    (9/100 larger)

    Same question for .357 designed barrel fitting a .38
     
  14. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    It uses .451 bullets. The name appears to be a play off of "why do you carry a .45?? Because they dont make a .46"
     
  15. MaineMan

    MaineMan New Member

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    According to the locals the ACP is plenty good

    I was at a friends last night and got talking with 2 guys that have lived and hunted in Maine and Canada their whole lives. They have killed Bear with rifle, pistols, and bow. They both said that the 45ACP is plenty good enough for Bear hunting.

    This will be my first Bear hunting experiense, I'm going to use my 54 caliber Hawken, or BAR 30-06 and take my good o'l 45 along for backup.

    The 255grn hot loads do feel like a handful in my pistol, so I will not be shooting very many of them for fear of hurting my gun. Buffalo Bore recommends a heavy spring if your going to shoot more than a box or two.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2011
  16. shooter57

    shooter57 New Member

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    A black bear or a hog would not stand up to a few well placed shots from a 45acp shooting hard cast but a 1000lb brown bear is another story. In a bad situation I wouldn't trust my life to anything smaller than a 44 mag with 300+ grain slugs and if I had my choice it would be a big repeating riffle like a lever 45/70.
    If I where you I would buy some bear mace if you're concerned about brown bears and don't own a big handgun as riffle seems a little out of place for the event. When we used to camp in Montana my dad kept an 870 loaded with slugs within arms length at camp and carried a 357 loaded with cast on his person while out in about.
     
  17. Gloves

    Gloves New Member

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    +1!
    That's well over 1,00 ft-lbs. Will finish what ever is at the end of tube with one shot.
     
  18. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

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    Clark Custom doesnt recommend Taurus to be used with the kits they make, but Johnny Rowland, the inventor of the round, doesnt have a problem wth it when selling his kit off of the 460rowland.com website. Wonder why...:rolleyes:
     
  19. pioneer461

    pioneer461 New Member

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    Not enough gun. Forty-five acp is intended for two-legged predators.
     
  20. parinoid54

    parinoid54 New Member

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    Am I missing something? :confused: On Buffalo Bore's web site, Tim lists his 45 ACP 255gr hard cast +P load at: 925fps, and 484fpe!!!, no where near your listings:rolleyes:. Lord knows, I would love to find such an ACP +P 45 load for a 1911, but over 800fpe??? I know I drink alot of kool-aid and other improper, not meant for humans liquids, but I just don't get it!

    However, if you meant to refer to his 460 Rowland loads (which ARE NOT .45 ACP +P loads), then you are closer to reality, except: his 255gr ROWLAND load isn't 815fpe, but 957fpe!

    Lastly (thank God!) I have always thought the 458 Socom was a RIFLE round, not a handgun round (Oh, wait, am I not on the 1911 forum?).

    Does anyone know where I left my kool-aid?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2011