.45 rimfire?

Discussion in 'History' started by OldGunfighter, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. OldGunfighter

    OldGunfighter New Member

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    I've got one for the brain trust....

    I have come into possession of a mixed container of vintage cartridges. One of the loose rounds looks like a .45-70 cartridge, but upon closer examination I found that it has a rimfire primer. The cartridge case is 2.1 inches long... Again like a .45-70. The cartridge is intact with a round nose lead bullet which measures at .453 at the edge of the casing. Overall length is 2.58 in., and there is a bilateral swag on the cartridge .15 in. From the rim. I can't find any info on it... Any ideas? ImageUploadedByFirearms Talk1391752462.491655.jpg ImageUploadedByFirearms Talk1391752574.517495.jpg


    Old Gunfighter
     
  2. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    That is a .46 Extra Long rim fire. It was chambered in a number of rifles until WWI. It is a U.S. cartridge from the late 19th and early 20th century.:)
     

  3. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

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    Looks to be a standard 45-70.
    It is NOT a rimfire!
    It is a inside primed center fire.
    The crimp marks above the rim are a dead give away.
     
  4. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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  5. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    Humm? Very old 45-70? Not likely. The .45 Government AKA .45-70 has a nominal bullet diameter of .457-.458. The OP stated this round had a .453-.456" diamater. This and the OAL are more consistent with the .46 Extra Long Rimfire. The .46 Rimfire was very popular and was made in .46 Rimfire short, Long and extra Long. The .46 Short Rimfire was chambered in handguns. Around 1869 this cartridge was popular for converting percussion cap firearms to cartridge use. The .46 Short was morphed into the .45 Schofield..:)
     
  6. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It ain't a rimfire. As stated it's a Benet primed .45-70.
     
  7. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    It's not a rimfire. Look at the link C3 posted.

    [​IMG]

    Benet primed 45-70

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  8. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    The bullet is too small. Humm? not a rimfire? It is a .46 caliber. My world does not depend on quotes from Wikipedia.:D
     
  9. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    1) That link was NOT for Wikipedia. It was a dedicated cartridge collecting site.

    2) It's already been proven that it's NOT a rimfire. It's a Benet primed center fire cartridge.

    3) Quit being stubborn. It's not a rimfire of any kind.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  10. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There were at least two US made inside primers, the Benet and the Morse.

    The US Army .45-70 rounds were inside primed until 1882 when they were superceded by a Berdan primed round.

    http://www.oldammo.com/november04.htm

    http://www.soldusa.com/rainworx/detail.asp?id=52759

    http://www.gunauction.com/buy/10723...-govt-inside-primed-from-april-1881-cart-z448

    http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/?page=glossary

    In about 1960 i came by hundreds of Benet primed .45-70 rounds when my EOD unit cleaned out the explosive ordnance from the estate of a deceased collector. At that time about 50 percent of the rounds fired. By 2000 none would fire.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  11. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    Why are you ignoring the fact that the bullet is not .458-.459 .45 Gvt. caliber? It is simply not a center-fire. It could have been any number of internal ignition cartridges. And yes it is head spaced to the rim.
    As I have posted in the TWW put me on your ignore list. I am concerned about stress and your health.:)
     
  12. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

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    nitestalker, oh wise one, how do you explain the crimp marks above the rim in the OP's cartridge?
     
  13. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    I never said it was not. It is an internally primed case no argument. It could be a needle fire I don't know what the ignition has to do with the caliber? The question was what is it. I offered an idea. If you don't have an idea you don't have anything to offer. :)
     
  14. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    i don't give a crap what you claim to have posted on. IMO: You lie so much as to be totally incredible.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  15. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    Why the personal attack. Calling anyone with a different idea a liar is not a discussion.:rolleyes:
     
  16. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    You've been presented with proof that proves that these are not a rimfire, which shows that your idea is completely wrong. There's a difference between having a different idea and completely ignoring facts because they don't line up with your beliefs.

    I think you have a problem admitting your wrong.
     
  17. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    Can you proof exactly what cartridge we are looking at? If not it is still anyone's guess. Continuing to call me a liar on every post because we don't agree is not proving any thing. This is simple provide the exact caliber of the ammunition in question. Not just the type of ignition. :)
     
  18. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    The round you claim it to be is a rimfire. The round in the picture is not a rimfire, so yeah. The ignition system has a lot to do with identifying the cartridge.

    It's not a 46 extra long rimfire.
     
  19. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    There have been differing opinions on the Dansh Remington that you refer to for a very long time. You note in my link that this round is referred to as 'rim-fire". In other links internal Benat primed. I have seen both.:)

    http://www.militaryrifles.com/Denmark/DanshRem.htm
     
  20. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    The link says the rifle could fire both, but that rifle really doesn't have anything to do with the cartridge in question. The OP asked what cartridge he has. The cartridge in question is a type of center fire. It is NOT a rimfire.