45+p

Discussion in '1911 Forum' started by 1911newbee, Jun 3, 2011.

  1. 1911newbee

    1911newbee New Member

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    hey guys.I want to see what ya'll know about the 45+p round.Will my springfeild shoot that round.What are the advanteges of it?I have heard of it but have yet to see it on the where i buy my ammo.Just curious.Thanks steven.
     
  2. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    my opinion:

    it should shoot it fine. there is no practical benefit to +p or +P+ ammo in any caliber. the very very very slight difference in speed makes no real discernable difference on impact. it adds unneeded recoil and muzzle flip making it more difficult to get in follow up shots. its a fantastic marketing tool for ammo companies. thats about it.

    if you really want to shoot a more powerful round get a gun chambered in a more powerful round.
     

  3. 1911newbee

    1911newbee New Member

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    ok.thank you.thats kinda what i thought,but you are rite about being a marketing tool.It sure caught my eye.Think i'll stick to my 230 grain hp's.Thanks a bunch.steven
     
  4. mesinge2

    mesinge2 New Member

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  5. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    I am going to have to disagree with my good friend JonM here.

    The .45 ACP round, assuming all things being equal, a JHP, out of a 5" barrel, travels at about 830-875fps.

    The same round in +P out of the same gun travels at about 950-1000fps.

    Now I firmly believe in the .45 ACP round, but there is no good reason I would want one traveling slower as opposed to faster. Especially when I have the added comfort and weight of an all steel 1911.

    I am not a small guy, and I don't have a problem with muzzle flip, so all I carry are +P loads. I have shot them, I have tested them, and I trust my life to them in all my 1911's.

    YMMV.

    JD
     
  6. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    The +P rounds will also wear out springs at a faster rate.
    And with their added speed, they will hit lower than the standard velocity on a target.
     
  7. shooter57

    shooter57 New Member

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    I don't see the point in a 45 acp.............it's already a proven man stopper
    in mos calibers +p is just a marketing thing IMO.

    for hunting purposes there are some great +p rounds in 45 LC and 357 mag if you got a pistol that can handle them but the difference in power for these calibers is HUGE compared to most +p rounds.

    I've shot pigs with these in my blackhawk and was really impressed.


    Heavy 357 Magnum Pistol & Handgun Ammunition
     
  8. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    How about we trade shots on equally dressed mannequins?

    My +P versus your standard ball?

    Winter clothing, 10 paces and we see what we'll see. :cool:

    JD
     
  9. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    True. And mostly true but with benefit.

    You should definitely upgrade your recoil spring if you are going feed your pistol a steady diet of +P ammo as it does create more chamber pressure.

    The benefit of hitting a bit low, if your weapon does shoot low with +P - mine does not, is that your follow up shots will be closer to center mass / paydirt. Thus putting MORE lead in the sweet spot. ;)

    JD
     
  10. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    hit in the coke bottle it doesnt matter :) its still the size of a small child... (cant remember where i saw that.)
     
  11. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper New Member

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    Federal 45 Auto HST std pressure load energy is 404,ft/lbs, same load in +p is 461ft/lbs
    Doesn't sound like much, but that is a 12% increase in energy.
    I'll buy that for a dollar:D

    Mine doesn't shoot low with +p:confused:
     
  12. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    True. I agree.

    Until you factor in environmental conditions, which is why those in the know also stagger their self defense rounds with JHP and Ball. ;)

    I have read a lot of reports, I have done a lot of tests, I have shot a lot of rounds, but I have also talked to a lot of folks through the shop who know a lot more than I EVER will about what it's like to HAVE to pull the trigger.

    A large, slowish moving round is effective, but the same round moving a bit faster is NOT a downside.

    Just sayin'

    JD
     
  13. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    Exactly the round I carry for the same reason. Neither my XD or my 1911 shoot low with +p ammo and I'll gladly take the added energy for the mild increase in recoil.
     
  14. parinoid54

    parinoid54 New Member

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    Consider: The 357 is the same round as a 38 Special, same caliber, same weight. The only difference is that the 357 is much faster. The 357 is shown to be the top "man-stopper" (Marshal/Sandow) in documented gun fights while the 38 is mediocure (sic).

    The negatives given above are true, but that doesn't stop anyone from carrying/using the 357. My carry loads differ, but usually it is the Double Tap .45 in 185 gr. Their claim is 1225 fps but STILL BELOW +P. However, I do use a slightly heavier spring.

    (Pssst!....Don't tell anyone, but sometimes, when I'm horney, I carry the 45 Super :eek:)
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2011
  15. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    From this 09-21-2009 post; Demystifying +P

    The inside scoop on +P
    By Dan Johnson

    Most shooters know the "P" in the +P designation on a cartridge headstamp stands for pressure and indicates that the cartridge is loaded to higher chamber pressures and thus higher velocities. But many are confused as to exactly how much pressure is added and how safe these high-performance loads are. I believe this confusion is contributed to by people in the industry, some by firearms companies that understandably wish to err on the side of caution in our litigious society and some by small ammunition manufacturers looking for an edge in a highly competitive market.

    The +P designation came about for a very simple reason. As advancements were made in the quality and strength of both firearms and cartridge cases it was determined that some of the older rounds were capable of operating safely at higher chamber pressures in modern firearms than those originally established. Since firearms--and cases, for that matter--are durable goods that last for decades, even centuries, it was not feasible to simply increase the standard pressure specifications for these cartridges. There are too many old firearms around that could not handle the increase safely. So SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute) uses the +P designation to separate the new pressure limit for these old cartridges from the old lower standard.

    It is important to understand that SAAMI is the principle organization in the United States actively engaged in the development and promulgation of product standards for firearms and ammunition. Ammo specifications are not overseen by the Consumer Product Safety Commission or any other branch of government. Consumers should be aware that only manufacturers that are members of SAAMI are bound by the Institute's guidelines.

    All the major American ammo manufacturers are SAAMI members, and most smaller outfits also abide by SAAMI guidelines, but I have seen ammo from one or two small manufacturers offered in calibers such as .40 S&W and .357 Magnum with the +P designation. Since SAAMI does not specify +P ratings for these cartridges there are only two possible explanations. Either the ammo is loaded to higher pressures than SAAMI deems safe or the +P designation is just marketing hype. Be aware, all comments in this article regarding the safety of using +P ammunition are related to SAAMI-sanctioned +P loads only.

    Perhaps the careless use of the +P designation contributes to the caution on the part of some firearms manufacturers. Some manufacturers make vague statements in their owner's manuals regarding +P ammo that I feel adds to consumers' confusion. For example, some manufacturers of 1911s state, without explanation, that +P .45 ACP ammo is not recommended for use in short-barreled models. This is not due to any concern over chamber pressures. All modern 1911s in proper working order will safely handle +P pressures. The concern is the increased slide velocity produced by the hotter ammo, which affects the functional reliability of the handgun. These short-barreled variants of the 1911 are sometimes finicky, and a recoil spring tensioned for a particular power level of ammo helps to ensure complete reliability. Loads beyond this power level are not only more prone to jam, the added recoil causes more stress on the frame.

    Another area of concern for some shooters is with the .38 Special +P loads and small-framed double-action revolvers. These little snubnose .38s have long been popular due to their light weight and concealability but are necessarily not as strong as beefier models. This is especially true of older handguns that may not have the quality of steel available today. I do not know of any current models in production that are not OK'd by the manufacturer for use with +P ammunition, and frankly, if I did I wouldn't fire the thing with any ammo. As stated earlier, SAAMI-specified +P is simply a modern standard for maximum pressure in these veteran cartridges, so if a newly manufactured handgun will not handle these pressures, I want no part of it.

    I would be remiss not to discuss another P rating: +P+. This designates that the cartridge is loaded above SAAMI specs for +P ammo, and most manufacturers restrict sale of these loads to law enforcement, for good reason. These loads are carefully tailored for modern service handguns and may not be safe in all firearms. Thus they are not offered to the general public.

    I feel we in the industry should make an effort to demystify +P loads. They are not, as some shooters believe, loaded to borderline pressures. The increase in pressure is moderate. For example, +P .45 ACP ammo is loaded to a maximum pressure of 23,000 psi compared to 21,000 psi for standard loads. Compared to the maximum pressure of other autoloader rounds, these pressures are very mild. The maximum pressure for the .40 S&W, for example, is 35,000 psi.

    Any increase in pressure and velocity, however, does put more stress on the firearm. For this reason I use +P .38 Special ammo sparingly in my Chiefs Special, and my 1911s have heavier-than-standard recoil springs. It just makes sense to minimize stress on the firearm as much as possible. I am fond of my handguns and want them to last.

    Plus-P ammunition can raise the performance bar for your handgun, but a trade-off is more recoil and muzzle blast. In some cases it is worth it, such as when a little more velocity is needed to ensure reliable bullet expansion. Velocity increase is modest, however. On average, +P ammo is about 50 to 100 fps faster than standard ammo, sometimes less. In fact, I have encountered some +P loads that were slower than some standard loads available. As always, choose ammo wisely based on your needs.

    The shooter considering using +P ammunition should follow the same safety precautions advisable with any ammunition. Make sure the firearm is in excellent condition and is approved by the manufacturer for the ammunition. If it's an autoloader, make sure the recoil spring is properly tensioned for the ammunition. And make sure the ammunition is from a reliable source and loaded to SAAMI specifications.