45 cal issue.

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by almostgem, Jan 9, 2012.

  1. almostgem

    almostgem New Member

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    Hi everyone.
    I reloaded some 45 acp +p small primer cases with 7 grains of power pistol, and 230 grain lasercut lead round nose bullets. I fired 2 with apparently no difficulty, then the slide completely jammed. I was finally able to get it to move, and found that the casing that was in the gun was in fact loaded.
    When I fired this round, the slide locked open, as I'd removed the mag. I didn't fire any more of those, but did fire some 200 grain copper plated rounds with the same powder and amount again without issues.
    The gun is a Para Ordinance P14 and has only had about 500 rounds put through it.
    Anyone have any ideas as to what would cause the slide to jam given the above info.
    Thanks!
     
  2. Firearms4ever

    Firearms4ever New Member

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    It could be that your firearm is just getting broken in or it could be that it doesn't like that ammunition for some reason.
     

  3. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Check the ammo in the pulled barrel to see if it chambers correctly. Since it is handlopaded ammo, that is the first thing to check.
     
  4. almostgem

    almostgem New Member

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    Thanks robocop, That was my job this morning.
    What I found, was that because of the way the bullet was shaped, It wasn't seating properly.
    Now I truly understand why you measure from the ogive rather than being totally dependant upon OAL for a bullet weight/shape.
    I took a picture with my phone to show what I mean.
    Hopefully it's clear enough to show the detail.
    I bullet on the left is what properly fits in the barrel.
    The center, because of the rim, was keeping the bullet from seating completely.
    The bullet on the right was what I initially used to figure the OAL based on my barrel.
    Thanks everyone for your responses.
    I truly appreciate !
     

    Attached Files:

  5. noylj

    noylj Member

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    You should use two empty cases to create two inert (no powder or primer) dummy rounds. You use these to set each die. Then you use them to play with seating depth and crimp.
    Use your barrel to be sure the bullet's ogive isn't hitting the rifling/lede and the crimp is removed enough to permit complete chambering.
    Then you use them to be sure they fit your magazine, feed and chamber. Then, load about 10-20 rounds and verify them at the range.
    Finally, the picture, fuzzy as it is, looks more like a roll crimp than a taper crimp.
    Your brass is too shiny, it is blinding me...
     
  6. almostgem

    almostgem New Member

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    Combination of Ultrasonic then Walnut. I likes it shiny !
    Thanks, It's actually just crimped using the factory crimp die.
    Sorry about the fuzzy picture. I was too lazy to pull out my camera, and opted for my phone instead.
    Handy for sure, but quality certainly lacks.
     
  7. Bigdog57

    Bigdog57 New Member

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    Yep, reminds me of some .45ACP I bought from a reloader buddy years ago, before I began loading. He didn't trim the lead at the case mouth, and it was 'messy'. I had to trim the lead from it before it would chamber. Last I bought from him, and what got me into loading for myself!
     
  8. joshfireart

    joshfireart New Member

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    I've seen this before the bullet is still moving when the crimp was being made and shaves a small amount of lead and then is crimped tight to case mouth. 2000 rounds of this , the fix I came up was j chuck a empty brass in my cordless. Drill and cut the lead off live and learn

    Sent from my iPhone using FirearmsTalk
     
  9. MidnightExpress

    MidnightExpress New Member

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    The Factory Crimp Die almostgem is using eliminates the movement while seating, the bullet is seated in a separate/previous operation in the seating die. You're right though if he were using a conventional seat & crimp die. That's why I never liked seating/crimping in the same step. It just seemed wrong from the start so I bought dies sets that included the Factory Crimp Die and had Lee make one to add to my 9mm Makarov dies. Couldn't get the Factory Crimp Die in the Makarov set.
     
  10. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have my dies set to seat with no crimp then use a separate taper crimp die.
     
  11. masterPsmith

    masterPsmith New Member

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    Exactly, the only proper way...............

    Jim...
     
  12. cliffspot

    cliffspot New Member

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    Chamber die is in your gun!

    Whenever you load a new bullet type in any semi auto, you should have the barrel at hand to do the 'drop in' test. 1911 style barrels....I have one in the side bin of the RL1050 that I use to test the loaded rounds...should make a poik (that's as close a spelling I can get for that sound!) sound when dropped in and turn freely. Also dummy rounds are the way to go to save time on setting the seat die, ditto on the separate crimp die! I bet if you used the FMG setting, the lead bullet would have chambered fine as the seating stem would have self adjusted for the ogive....not always, but usually works for me in 45 ACP and 9mm. If you load hollow points, check the fit of the bullet in the seating stem first before loading as some of the new design hollows actually seat better using the semiwadcutter stem. Also....Power Pistol?!?!? Why use that? Use about 5-5.2gr of 231 or HP38....less powder...more loads per pound and a lot more accurate!
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2012
  13. Wyatt Earp

    Wyatt Earp New Member

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    The problem you have with that particular bullet is solely related to the nose diameter at the start of the ogive. Notice that the nose is several thou smaller dia than the base dia. The oal that works in your gun is is quite noticeably shorter in oal than the one that didn't work and all of the base dia
    is completely within the case. Some 1911's may function with the bullet seated out that far, just not yours. What happened is the base part of the bullet that was out of the case jammed into the rifling and I'm surprised it chambered at all.
    Also use caution with that short oal as pressures rise with the decreased case volume and the load needs to be backed off some. Notice that the ogive of the original jacketed bullet that you originally used to compute your oal is not nearly as fat a profile.
    I also think your rounds are crimped more than necessary, remember the case headspaces on the mouth and if crimped too far it won't headspace correctly. Good luck, Wyatt.
     
  14. culdee

    culdee New Member

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    I totally gave up on cast bullets in my 45ACP. Too many headaches with jammed slides, fail to feed, etc. I sold the remaining bullets to a friend with a 45 colt revolver
     
  15. Sport45

    Sport45 New Member

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    I think there's something else going on here. It doesn't look to me like there's enough driving band exposed on the center cartridge to jam up a handgun. I suspect a case wasn't properly sized or it wasn't properly crimped (enough to remove the bell left by the expander) resulting in the case jamming in the chamber. Did you see rifling marks on the bullet when you got it out?

    The slide shouldn't have locked bag without a mag in there. This also leads me to believe something else is going on, but I don't know what it is.
     
  16. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    Actually the rounds in the picture look like they have a huge amount of crimp. The one on the right looks like it is crimped into the bullet. When handloading for a round that headspaces off the case mouth most people just tapercrimp enough to remove the belling of the mouth. For about $15 you can buy a case gauge from midwayusa.com. You simply drop the finished round into the gauge. If it goes flush is has enough crimp. If it wont go in you need more. I make mine to where they just drop in freely. No more, no less.
     
  17. almostgem

    almostgem New Member

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    Thanks Rick,
    I'll head on over to Midway and get a couple of the case gauges.
    I also have some 9mm lead that I recently picked up.
    I haven't attempted anything with those, as this last episode rattled me a bit.

    Hey Sport (lol couldn't resist), Thinking about it now, I may have locked the slide back after firing and checking the chamber.
    I was nervous, but at least had the sense to keep the gun pointed down range while trying to unjam the slide.
    I wasn't sure whether it was a live round, or whether it was a failure to eject that jammed up the works.
    When I got the slide to move and got it locked in place, then fired, I was actually surprised that it was a loaded round.

    Wyatt,
    Thankfully, I've only made a few so far,
    I'll pick up the case gauge as Rick is suggesting, and start at the beginning with these rounds.
    I haven't made it back to the range since the incident.

    It's strange really, I had jams in my AK47 - 223 (WASR-3) the first time I brought it to the range, but it didn't really upset me at the time.
    The last jam, I had to disassemble the rifle as a spent cartridge failed to eject and instead ended up inside the
    trigger control area. It took a knife to pry the case out. I had just purchased the rifle used, and was "told"
    that there were no issues whatsoever, but he was just thinning the herd.
    The gunsmith that I brought it to, did a bit of polishing, lubed it up real well,
    and I haven't had a problem with the gun since.
     
  18. noylj

    noylj Member

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    Rick1967:
    Every gun comes with a perfect case gage. For semi-autos, I have the barrel at the bench. For revolver, I generally have the gun at the bench so I can use the 5-8 case gages it came with.
     
  19. xp100

    xp100 New Member

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    What I have done is to buy a 2nd seater/crimping die and set up one die to seat and back off the seater stem on the second die so that it crimps only.