.410 deer hunting?

Discussion in 'General Shotgun Discussion' started by fupuk, Nov 23, 2013.

  1. fupuk

    fupuk New Member

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    My son will be old enough to hunt deer next year and considering letting him use my dads old single shot .410, everyone ive talked to says .410 is unethical because of its lack of power. Im not thinking 100yard shots, like 50 yards or less. Ive found 1/5 oz slugs and 1/4 oz slugs. Thats right around 88gr-109gr, why would that be an unethical firearm with the right shot placement? Any insight would be appreciated.
     
  2. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have been trying to figure that one out for years. I think it is because too many meatheads try to shoot a .410 like it's a 12 gauge. I took my first deer in NC with my F.I.E. .410 at about 20 yards with a 2.5 inch slug. Popped both lungs, and he was down and done within 50 yards.

    What most people do not understand is yes, the .410 is the smallest shotgun, but it still has more power than a .44 Magnum when it exits the barrel. Would I use mine out past 40 yards? No, but anything closer with the right load in the shotgun is not a problem.

    Fupuck. If you son is comfortable with the .410, and it is legal in your area, go for it. I would use mine up here, but our game laws strictly forbid big game hunting with a shotgun smaller than a 20 gauge.
     

  3. fupuk

    fupuk New Member

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    I know its legal in Michigan to hunt with a .410, and hes comfortable with shooting it. Hes probably got more rounds down range in that thing than I do. What type of shells did you use to take that deer? And like I said im gonna keep the shot under 50yards and belive it will do the job very well with a good shot placement.
     
  4. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

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    Obviously the 410 will kill deer (I shot my first deer with one). But it is a very light deer round. So why take a chance? They shoot a slug of the same weight as a 380 bullet. The rule of thumb for deer cartridges is an energy of 1000 ft lb or more and the 410 is less than 800.
     
  5. 303tom

    303tom Well-Known Member

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    If you are close enough.....................
     
  6. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    It's going to come down to judgement like in muzzleloader and archery hunting. It's going to be about picking a shot that is going to be as close to a sure thing as possible.
     
  7. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    My neighbors kid is 14 this year. He is hunting in the woods behind his house alone this year. So far he has killed three does and a seven point. He has a 243 Handi rifle and a Ruger 22/45. The first couple does he killed it sounded like WWII. He drilled both does right in the neck. Everytime the deer twitched he popped the deer in the head with the 22/45. I gave him a Cold Steel fixed blade knife to cut their throat. The knife saved a lot of hard to find 22LR ammo. The first deer he killed alone you could grab it's ears and stretch it's head.

    When he killed the seven point once I got the skinning started he finished skinning the deer himself. He isn't ready to butcher a deer. Next season his father won't be working 50/60 hours a week. He will learn much faster with the patience of his father.
     
  8. Pasquanel

    Pasquanel Proud to be an American Supporter

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    I personally would never consider using a .410 anything on such a noble animal as the whitetail deer!
    If its worth harvesting its worth doing it right! The .410 slug has much less energy than the .45 lc and on par with the 9mm.
    Can it kill a deer sized animal? Yes it can, is it ethical? Not by my standards! Sometimes its about whats right and not can I.
     
  9. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    I'd like to nominate you for neighbor of the year.

    My neighbor let my kid take a part in butchering a deer recently. I didn't know until he showed up back at the house covered in blood. I wasn't happy.
     
  10. 1911love

    1911love New Member

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    LOL! Love the analogy, I couldn't stop laughing. I'm all for a quick ethical kill, but the way you described it wouldn't let me hold back the laughter.
     
  11. yazul42

    yazul42 Active Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I'd cough up the change and get him a H&R youth model 20 ga. and mount a scope or red dot for him. An old fellow,, even older than me,, uses a .410, but as stated he is extremely picky about his shots and knows that old 42 Winchester very well. A kid can easily get too excited and possibly take a shot he shouldn't and cripple or gut shoot one and have no recovery, which would definitely cause a lot of anxiety. Get him a gun with moderate power that he could handle well and give him more of a chance to take a deer with better confidence. I think you'd both feel better about that, if another shotgun is viable.
     
  12. GTX63

    GTX63 New Member

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    He is going to have to choose between possible losing a nice deer because he may be outside the 50 yd range, or risk wounding him by taking a shot he shouldn't have. A youth 20 gauge or a used shotgun would get my vote.
     
  13. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have to disagree with the 410 being more powerful than a 44 mag. Most are at least equal but a 6" 44 mag shooting a factory loaded Buffalo Bore 240 grain is 970 ft lbs while a 24" 410 1/5 oz Rem slug is 704 ft lbs, 1/4 oz Win & Fed is 722 ft lbs. The Brenneke Silver 114 gr @ 1065 ft lbs is the only one to surpass the 44 mag pistol however bump the 44 mag up to a rifle and you get a 300 fps jump. The 357 mag in rifle will easily out perform a 410 with a 158 grain bullet at 1900+ fps. I posted a link below to some shotgun test results. I am not saying the 410 wont do the job.

    http://mcb-homis.com/slug_410/slugtest/
    http://www.ballistics101.com/44_magnum.php
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
  14. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    I was really nervous about turning him loose with my Buck 110. The 110 is razor sharp. He did a fine job of not cutting towards himself.
     
  15. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    The 20 ga with a rifled barrel is an awesome deer gun. Some people say the new 20ga sabots eliminates the need for a 12ga. That is a matter of personal preference. The 3" 12 ga slug at full load generates around 70 ft lb of recoil. I can understand why some people would look for an excuse not to shoot a 12 ga. A 3" 12 ga sends a 300 gr sabot downrange at over 2,000 fps. I am not sure about 20 ga ballistics but they are impressive.

    I can say this much a 243 with factory ammo has less recoil than a 20ga with field load birdshot. 243, 9.8 ft lb of recoil. 20 ga field load 12 ft lb of recoil. A 3" 20 ga slug considerably more recoil than a field load.
     
  16. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

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    A 410 is right on the line of is it enough or not enough. I think it is enough, but you have very little room for error and you will probably see the deer run a bit before it drops.
     
  17. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister New Member

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    I think the best gauge for what type of ammo is best to hunt a specific game is....does the game suffer needlessly due to the ammo? A real hunter will ensure the proper tools are used to be as humane as possible. If not, they are just shooters and not hunters. So, does the .410 ensure a humane kill.......?
     
  18. GTX63

    GTX63 New Member

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    Following another thread regarding a deer kill in Texas with a 223, location is important as well. If we were talking about some of the south/southwestern states, 410 may be fine. 100lb deer may be as good as it gets there. Looks like you are in Michigan. Seems like they grow them a little thicker around your parts.
     
  19. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    I am with John Deere on this one! And would suggest going with the 20 ga. no doubt!
    Being his first deer you want him to be successful. It is a once in a lifetime experience not only bagging the first deer but spending the experience with you. So give him the tools to do it with. Only my thought. You can get him a Remington 20ga Youth Model for around $300 and do not forget Santa is coming soon. And I could think of no better gift from you as his first shotgun and his first deer harvest. .410 is marginal at best! And could court a bad experience! And especially in the hands of a new hunter. Good luck! And my regards to the new hunter!

    03
     
  20. limbkiller

    limbkiller New Member

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    Why weren't you happy? My sons have been helping skin and butcher animals as soon as they could walk. I let my 2 year old grandson pull the heads off doves that are still alive during dove shoots. I explain the animal is suffering and needs to be put down. My kids started at the same age.

    We will be butchering hogs the old fashioned way this coming Saturday and my grandsons will be there for the whole thing. From shooting them in the head, cutting throats to salting the hams. Just a natural thing all kids should learn. I have a picture somewhere of my youngest son at 3 holding the hide as I skinned a bear.