410 balistics

Discussion in 'General Shotgun Discussion' started by 410shooter, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. 410shooter

    410shooter New Member

    39
    0
    0
    i wents shooting yesterday in the hot arizona desert and i took my winchester model 37A youth in 410. based on the life like manikin we shot. ''chest and head'' it seems like the 410 is a fine home defence and a self defence firearm. when we shot the manikin the blew off the stand and rolled all the way down a hill. all of the bird shot going all the way through the head and chest. if you were in the home defence scenario and you hit someone with the 410 #6 shot with 3" shells it will knock them off there feet. but with the buck shot it will just travel through the body with no knockdown power. if a man on drugs breaks into your house it most likely will not work. i was supprised with how much force the #6 shot put on the manikin. it literaly flew off the stand and did 4 or 5 flips in the air before it hit the ground. :eek: then it rolled down a hill. what do you guys think of it as a home defence firearm?
     
  2. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

    4,828
    0
    0
    Excellent if you are attacked by a 20 lb mannequin. :D Seriously, if all you have is a .410 it will be more than enough to deter any bad guy...I prefer a 12 ga, just in case.
     

  3. 410shooter

    410shooter New Member

    39
    0
    0
    well after seeing what the 410 can do... i would not want to be on the recieving end of it. it hits very hard and all the shot went all the way through the head and chest. the buck shot was dissapointing though i was expecting a little more punch
     
  4. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

    1,680
    0
    0
    Shooting at inanimate objects gives you a rough idea of the power, force and penetration a given cartridge may produce, but the results are only applicable to what ever object you are shooting. It will not behave that way in a different type of matter.

    The only test you can produce accurate and "real world" applicable results for is (for shotguns) pattern spread. You can tell what a given cartridge is going to do at a certain distance.

    The reason the buckshot didn't "knock down" the dummy is because the velocity is usually higher in buck shot and it simply traveled through the material fast enough not to "push" it like the hundreds of little BBs did in the bird shot. Chances are the BBs didn't even travel through the dummy so all of the force stayed with in the mass, so it had to move.

    Have you ever "knocked down" a piece of paper when target shooting? No, because the bullet travels through with out disturbing the rest of the object, only the impacted area.

    You can't test effectiveness of a round unless you put it into similar matter. Sorry man. :eek:
     
  5. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

    9,663
    2
    0
    I personally would not reach for my 410 unless it was all I had left. In recent years (thank you judge) people have tried to turn the 410 into something it's not, a SD round. They've dressed it up and made it better but it is still a weak choice, in 2.5 or 3", even when loaded with buckshot or a slug.
    I wouldn't want to be on the business end of one either but I'll keep mine for plinking and the occasional small game.
     
  6. 410shooter

    410shooter New Member

    39
    0
    0
    the thing is with the 12 ga. is you will kill the person on the recieving side then you will have a life on your hands. if you shoot there leg they will either bleed out or lose there leg. where ever you hit them it does so very much damage. all you need to do is disable them. untill the police get there. a leg shot with the 410 at close range might put them on the ground. with minimal damage. all you need to do is get the bad guy down. not kill him. or make him lose a limb, nobody deserves that. thats my opinion

    -mike-
     
  7. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

    1,733
    0
    0
    I have serious doubts that 410 buckshot would pass right through a human body,but even if it did you can't say that it wouldn't deposit most of it's energy and cause serious trauma,a 3" 00 buck from a long gun is close to the equivelent of 5 .22 magnums from a pistol hitting at once,so it's going to do some damage.A 3" slug could very well go through a body,but even so it is going to probably drop a man.Birdshot will do alot of damage within maybe 6 feet,but after that,it won't penetrate enough to ensure a stop.
     
  8. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

    7,143
    1
    0
    Sorry but this is just silly.

    If I ever get in a situation where I need to defend my home - I could care less about the health of the BG. Shooting to wound will get you dead in a hurry. You shoot to stop the threat and I want something that will reliably stop that threat...
     
  9. Gojubrian

    Gojubrian New Member

    6,262
    5
    0
    Who the heck would shoot just to wound? If I am FORCED to shoot someone, let's say an armed burglar, I don't want them able to shoot back, I don't want them able to tell anyone later, I don't want them to break into someone else's home and threaten their family six months later, I don't want them able to sue me,etc etc....get the point?

    I would NEVER aim at a bad guy's legs or arms, EVER. That's just bad advice right there.

    By the way, if you want to do more realistic testing use wet newspaper bundles. Have them soak and wet, overnight, bound tightly, and 12-15inches thick. Then layer it with denim. ;) I suspect you will change your mind about the .410.

    The .410 is the .25acp of shotguns. :p
     
  10. 410shooter

    410shooter New Member

    39
    0
    0
    i just dont agree with shoot to kill. if you think about it. would you stick around the place if you were shot? or would you want to get away and live. if someone is shot they are probably going to run out the door. = successful home defence
     
  11. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

    1,733
    0
    0
    If you have kids then you will shoot to stop,center mass,if someone has the gall to break into my house with a gun and it's his life or my kids or mine,he's going to get 9-15 pellets of 00 buck from my 12 gauge,I am not going to have my family's life on my hands,it was his decision to be shot,not mine.By the way,if you want to have alot of stopping power with less liklyhood the BG will die,any shotgun is not a good idea.2 center mass hits with a .45 will stop him,and statistics show that 80% of all handgun shootings are non life threatening.
     
  12. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

    4,828
    0
    0
    You shoot to end the threat to your life or the life of your family...period. If that ends in death that's not your fault, the BG chose his course of action, you responded in self defense. If you cannot deal with that in a mature and rational manner then I suggest that you keep the gun in a closet until you can. I am not trying to be an a-hole, it's just that hesitation in a life or death situation can cost you your life. Just remember, a dying man can still pull a trigger or stick a knife in you...a dead one cannot.
     
  13. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

    1,733
    0
    0
    Hey,just out of curiousity,what kind of .410 is it?Break action single,pump,semi auto?
     
  14. 410shooter

    410shooter New Member

    39
    0
    0
    its a break action i use it for trap. not a home defence firearm. if you had a pump 410 i think it would be fine with magnum rounds #5 bird shot and a few slugs just my opinion.
     
  15. Jodaddy

    Jodaddy New Member

    5
    0
    0
    If you have any doubts about the ability of the .410 to seriously do harm, then please read the following article. This was from a serial shooter in the Phoenix area about 5 years ago. His weapon of choice was the .410.

    6 deaths linked to shooting spree
     
  16. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

    1,733
    0
    0
    There are a few .410 pumps out there,not alot of choices and birdshot is more than twice the price for 410 vs 12 gauge.Ammo is limited in .410 for buckshot,slugs and heavy shot,as where you can find alot of light loaded 2-3/4" 12 gauge ammo that will give you the same effect of a 3" .410,maybe even less lethal cause the 12 will spread smaller shot out more.
     
  17. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

    21,345
    224
    63
    Not to be throwing rocks at anyone, but there is no humane, guaranteed non-lethal way of shooting anybody with ANYTHING that fires a metallic projectile. Even police beanbag rounds are marked LESS LETHAL, not NON LETHAL.

    If I shoot out your femoral, brachial, or subclavian artery (inside thigh, arm, collarbone) you will likely die of blood loss MOST ricky-tick. Shooting at moving people under less than ideal circumstances is MUCH harder than punching the X on a B-40 silhouette at 7 yds in nice sunshine.

    If I have to shoot someone, it will be because they have placed me in fear of my life, and I will continue to shoot until THAT has changed. I may be overly cautious, but I damned well plan to be the OLDEST overly cautious kid on the block.
     
  18. 410shooter

    410shooter New Member

    39
    0
    0
    i like your views. i never thought of it that way. and i did not think about those arteries. there is always a risk of dying if your shot. i guess my point was busted :p
     
  19. GreatWhiteHunter

    GreatWhiteHunter New Member

    10
    0
    0
    One additional note(and I am sure I read it on another Forum post here) is that some states(lesser states imho) do not allow you to use lethal force(which is as you now know could be just about any firearm) unless you are in fear of your life or loved ones. Shooting to hopefully wound only is a consideration that maybe you were not that worried or were not threatened enough shoot to kill. I am hoping I worded this as I intended. lol.

    Also, I have an old old old Stevens 410 that I love to plink with. :cool: