[jdnossaman]

I have recently been doing a little personal research into large caliber "tactical" rifles. I have found that 2 cartridges are possibly the best for the purpose. But i have found conflicting information about each of them. Maybe its just manufacture promotion or the article writers personal preference. But i have found that .408 Chey-Tac and .416 Barrett are the 2 best long range "tactical" rounds out there followed by the .50 BMG. i haven't really found anything different between the 2 rounds, other than a few minor details that can be worked around with different loads. The 408 is slightly heavier by 19 grains, 250 ft/s slower. The ballistic coefficient of the barrett is 1.103 and the cheytac is .934. So since these to rounds are so similar which one would you use if you were a "tactical shooter" or just a long range hunter with a lot of money.

 

[Dillinger]

jdnoss - I edited your post, we are trying not to promote the "S" word around here because of the negative connentation it has with the media. We are not going to be giving them any extra ammunition ( no pun intended ) to be used against us lawful firearms owners. Please substitute "Tactical" or similiar in future postings.

Okay, as for the question at hand, you are on the right track, but you have stumbled into one of the truly horrible things about the firearms industry. Too much misinformation and too little REAL information about the weapons you are researching.

The Chey Tac system is AMAZING. They have taken the science of shooting and damn near perfected it. Their Intervention System, which includes their ballistic computer and their software, at this time, is probably the best overall tactical kit on the market. At a little over $15K, it's also one of the most expensive.

Everything that is great about the Chey-Tac is balanced by what is going on behind the scenes with the company. The brass and the bullets themselves are proprietary, which means there are very few sources of each, so when the company goes out of business. Guess what.

Chey-Tac is also being ripped apart from the inside with a power struggle, and one of the founding members threw up his hands, left the company and is suing is former partner. The money they spent on R & D for the Intervention was astronomical, and they were heavily, heavily in debt as of two years ago. I don't know if that changed recently, but I can't see $8000 rifles and $15K Tactical Kits jumping off the shelves with reckless abandon.

The .416 Barrett was Ronnie Barrett's way of thumbing his nose at Kalifornia when they banned his .50 cal. He even went so far as to refuse to service the .50 cal Barrett's that he had sold to the law enforcement departments in Kalifornia because of it, which made him a legend in the internet and gun buying community.

The .416 Barrett is a hell of a weapon also. It's round does travel faster than the Chey-Tac, but the Chey-Tac does hold the world record group at this time. ( 16 5/8" for three rounds at 2321 yards, which is UNGODLY ACCURATE.

The .416 brass and bullet are also proprietary, so after the fall of the world and Space Zombies rule the formerly free lands, you are going to have one hell of an expensive club on your hands if you can't hand turn the ammo and reload the brass.

The .416 has only been around since 2005, so it's full impact hasn't been felt yet. Just like with the Chey-tac, the true performance with the .416 is when equipped with BORS ( Barrett Optical Ranging System ) from Barrett, which is going to tack on another $3000 to $3500 to the price of your $7,000 to $8,000 weapon.

I like the round, hell, I like both rounds, but there are other FAR LESS costly options that will allow you to reach 2,000 yards.

Unless you have more money than sense, I would covet both, but plan on purchasing neither...

JD

 

[jdnossaman]

Sorry of the use of the "S" word. I had no idea that cheytac was doing that bad. Not that it wouldn't be plausible judging by the price of their rifles. A lot of people cant afford to part with $15k. Making it primarily used by the military and they never convert real fast. From what I have found I think i like the .408 cheytac. It can do some amazing things. But the .416 barrett is also really good.

 

[cpttango30]

Neither. I would go with a custom rifle in 308, 6.5-284 or 300 win mag.

The 308 is about as low as you want to go on the long range scale. The 6.5-284 is known to rip the throat out of a barrel in 1500 rounds or less and the 300 win mag has a belt making it not as accurate as a non-belted case.

You could go with a 22-6mm ai this cartridge will also rip the throat out of a barrel in 500 to a 1000 rounds. But it will sling a 90gr .224 caliber bullet out fast and a long way.

Long range shooting is more about you knowing how to read wind and other atmospheric conditions then it is about having a big cartridge that will sling lead across 3 counties.

If you are dead set on a large caliber tacticool rifle. Just go for the 50bmg. Ammo and cases are easy to get ahold of and not proprietary. Hornady and other companies make bullets for reloading.

 

[robocop10mm]

If you really want somethng with effectiveness at 1000 yds and not just capable of accurately punching holes in paper, consider .338's. The Lapua is the "hot" thing now, but expensive. IMHO, a .338 Win Mag offers a lot for a far more reasonable price.

 

[cpttango30]

If you really want somethng with effectiveness at 1000 yds and not just capable of accurately punching holes in paper, consider .338's. The Lapua is the "hot" thing now, but expensive. IMHO, a .338 Win Mag offers a lot for a far more reasonable price.

The 338 win mag looses out under the 338 Edge. A 300 rum necked up to 338. it is called the poor mans 338 lapua.

 

[Dillinger]

There is another option.

Currently, we are building a custom build Tactical Rig for a guy with a "Spe-cia-lized SkillSet" that has recently "retired" with a boatload of sandbox cash and wants to "keep the skills sharp".

I am not 100% certain, but I believe we are building it on a .416 Rigby cartridge, but I need to confirm that. The round he chose, after comparing quite a few charts, is this standard .416 round and isn't proprietary at all.

Let me get some details for you tomorrow and you can take a look at this one as an option with some real good potentional...

JD

 

[shannongto]

Another cheaper alternative is the 338 Ultra Mag....It's only a couple 100 feet off of the Lapua....I know plenty of guys in Alaska that take 1k yard shots on Moose and Bear....They say they have gotten then down to the lowest 3/4 moa but most hover 1 moa...That set up with a good scope is less than 2250...

 

[Lindenwood]

I don't know a lot about "s-word" rifles. A friend of our family has a McMillion (I think) rifle in .338 Lapua that he said was a little over $10k, with a scope that was more than the rifle heh. He said in the 55 rounds he has put through it in his free time (he is a Surgeon, so his free times is sometimes limited between that and his wife and two baby girls), he has done 3/8" at 100 yards, 1.25" at 300 yards, and rolled a Hog at over 500. He mentioned he bought this one (a custom order) because it is the same one used by one of the branches of our military (don't remember which one), so he thought that was cool, heh.

For less than 1000 yards, though, the .243 will trump the .308 in all but terminal effectiveness, and the 6.5 and 7mms will match or beat it in that regard as well (including ones based on the .308 case). They will all put out bullets with higher BCs at higher velocities.

But yeah, the furthest military sniper kill in the world was apparently done with a .338 Lapua, so it definitely can't be too bad heh.
Longest recorded sniper kills - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dillinger seems to know what the hell is he talking about, though, haha.

And I'd agree that if I really just wanted a huge, powerful sniper rifle, I'd probably just go strait to the BMGeezie.

 

[un4senkstms]

.300 wsm

Lindenwood, I bet your surgeon friend of your would be pretty upset if he knew that I had a .300 WSM that I paid under $600 for and at a 100 yards I can put a round in the same hole all day long. At 300 yards I hold just under a 1/2" group. It's a Winchester Model 70 Coyote. I love that rifle.

 

[Wireflight]

Caliber vs Ranges in Most Areas

I had a Springfield Armory M1A, glass-bedded by the factory; no scope; the sling I had was OD and seemed to be made of a heavy cloth, and I used 20-rd mags. With cheapo USA "ball" (actual bullet was BT) ammo, from a standing position (but leaning against a telephone pole) I put 20 rds through a hole I could cover with a quarter -- in under 25 seconds, at 105 yards. It was a wonderful, delightful gun. I parted with it when a guy offered me half again what I had in it after only 6 months; for my having so done, I could now kick myself!

I had an old bolt-action, single-shot .22 rifle (it would shoot rimfire shorts, longs and long-rifles; I preferred the latter, and generally bought the fastest round I could get because practical ranges were so short and ammo was so cheap). A friend and I were plinking one day and decided to have a contest for extreme-range shots. The targets on which I won were 4 glass bottles(which I now discourage anyone from shooting, as it's an environmental menace to the innocent) buried in the side of a sand hill several hundred yards distant; only the necks of the bottles were exposed, as I didn't want to be credited with "mere luck." The sun shining on the exposed rims made bright little arcs from where I had taken my shooting position; I aimed high, but the first shot fell short and left (landed about 220-230 degrees and 150 ft from the first rim). My second shot landed about 240-250 degrees and 50-60 ft from the first rim; my third shot landed about a foot to the left of the first rim, and on the same level as the target. Having thus determined where in the sky I needed to point my barrel, the next three shots passed through the necks of successive target bottles, so I didn't get to see the puff of sand; I got my breathing a little off on the last shot; it landed slightly right, just outside the rim of the fourth bottle, but close enough that it broke the rim and the side out of that bottle. The bottoms were shattered from the first three bottles. I don't know the exact range of those shots, but I was aiming upwards at nearly 45 degrees, and the targets were slightly below my elevation.

If you take your time and don't doubt yourself, you can make shots that will astound your friends.

Probably the most distant shot I took with the .308 was in the 325-yard range (+ or - maybe 15 yards): anywhere but at a range devoted to that purpose, the opportunity to make long shots is increasingly diminishing. I tried the "just shoot" lifestyle for a while -- not really aiming at anything, but burning through a bunch of ammo; I didn't have fun, and I spent an ungodly amount of dough. Nowadays, I've adopted the philosophy I had in high school: don't shoot at anything you don't intend to hit; consequently, I take a lot fewer shots than most others -- but I never miss, either.

 

[Wireflight]

Caliber vs Ranges in Most Areas

I had a Springfield Armory M1A, glass-bedded by the factory; no scope; the sling I had was OD and seemed to be made of a heavy cloth, and I used 20-rd mags. With cheapo USA "ball" (actual bullet was BT) ammo, from a standing position (but leaning against a telephone pole) I put 20 rds through a hole I could cover with a quarter -- in under 25 seconds, at 105 yards.

It was a wonderful, delightful gun, but I parted with it when a guy offered me half again what I had in it after only 6 months; for my having so done, I could now kick myself!

I had an old bolt-action, single-shot .22 rifle (it would shoot rimfire shorts, longs and long-rifles; I preferred the latter, and generally bought the fastest round I could get because practical ranges were so short and ammo was so cheap). A friend and I were plinking one day and decided to have a contest for extreme-range shots.

The targets on which I won were 4 glass bottles(which I now discourage anyone from shooting, as it's an environmental menace to the innocent) buried in the side of a sand hill several hundred yards distant; only the necks of the bottles were exposed, as I didn't want to be credited with "mere luck."

The sun shining on the exposed rims made bright little arcs from where I had taken my shooting position; I aimed high, but the first shot fell short and left (landed about 220-230 degrees and 150 ft from the first rim). My second shot landed about 240-250 degrees and 50-60 ft from the first rim; my third shot landed about a foot to the left of the first rim, and on the same level as the target.

Having thus determined where in the sky I needed to point my barrel, the next three shots passed through the necks of successive target bottles, so I didn't get to see the puff of sand; I got my breathing a little off on the last shot; it landed slightly right, just outside the rim of the fourth bottle, but close enough that it broke the rim and the side out of that bottle. The bottoms were shattered from the first three bottles. I don't know the exact range of those shots, but I was aiming upwards at nearly 45 degrees, and the targets were slightly below my elevation.

If you take your time and don't doubt yourself, you can make shots that will astound your friends.

Probably the most distant shot I took with the .308 was in the 325-yard range (+ or - maybe 15 yards): anywhere but at a range devoted to that purpose, the opportunity to make long shots is increasingly diminishing. I tried the "just shoot" lifestyle for a while -- not really aiming at anything, but burning through a bunch of ammo; I didn't have fun, and I spent an ungodly amount of dough. Nowadays, I've adopted the philosophy I had in high school: don't shoot at anything you don't intend to hit; consequently, I take a lot fewer shots than most others -- but I never miss, either.

 

[seancslaughter]

338 Lapua, 300 winmag, and 308 are what I have experience with in a long distance "combat" mission and 338 by far is one of the best rounds I have ever used, but for the most part the snipers I have met mostly used the 300 winmag and the other SDM's and myself all used souped up M-14's at the time (2003-2004) to which they have now added more mods and call the M21. The one I used I had made accurate shots out to around 875 meters with.

 

[JonM]

just a fyi original posting was 2009. 5 years ago. the op has 46 posts so prolly not around anymore.

 

[seancslaughter]

lol someone is resurrecting the dead here!

 

[TekGreg]

Thanks for that Jon! Unfortunately, everyone is now reading it as a resurrected post!

For those reading this currently, as with any firearm that is highly specialized in function, you have to ask yourself if it will hang on the wall to talk about or if it will be shot. If you plan to actually use the weapon, you will need a considerable amount of ammo, and the easier it is to find and purchase, the better. Therefore, neither one of these is a good shooter for me. Anything in .50 BMG will cover the same range, can be stoked with all civilian and many surplus military rounds which are much cheaper and more available than specialty ammo, and cost 1/2 to 2/3 less than a specialty weapon. The BORS adds computer accuracy to any Barrett and handheld computers are available for other weapons systems, but the ability to put 100's of affordable rounds down range is what will turn you from a long-range owner to a long-range shooter!

Perfect practice makes perfect!

 

[SaneMembrane]

OP: the .375 CheyTac has the highest ballistic coefficient of any round on record. Desert Tactical Arms made consistent hits at 3,080 yards with their HTI platform chambered in this caliber. It has as much energy at 2,500 yards as the .357 mag has at the muzzle. It shoots flat and kicks little. If you're looking for the ultimate ultra-long-range anti-personnel cartridge, look no further.

http://www.dtacomlink.com/dta-dtm-3080-yards-with-hti-375-cheytac/

Imagine what they could do if they combined it with the TrackingPoint system and self-stabilizing bullets. 2-mile gun? Undoubtedly.

 

[Wireflight]

Wisdom!

Thanks for that Jon! Unfortunately, everyone is now reading it as a resurrected post!

... the ability to put 100's of affordable rounds down range is what will turn you from a long-range owner to a long-range shooter!

Perfect practice makes perfect!

A-freaking-men!

 

[AlexXeon]

Whats the s word?

 

[Txhillbilly]

Leave it to a freakin new guy to dig up a 7+ year old thread!
Damn gravediggers.