.38 Super

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by matt g, Mar 13, 2009.

  1. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    How does the .38 Super compare to 9x19? I've read quite a bit about them on paper, but never seen a .38 Super in real life.
     
  2. ladyM

    ladyM New Member

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    I have just purchased a Kimber 1911 full size in .38 super. The ammo looks like a 9mm only longer---sort of similar to a .38 compared to a .357.
    My reason for purchase is strictly competition. I have it on good authority that the .38 super , with a supported barrel, can not only shoot major class in competition but will have a power factor that can not be exceeded by a .45 acp. With an appropriate compensator the .38 super,shooting a round more powerful than any .45acp, can maintain a recoil that is somewhat equal to a 9mm.
    After some practice on my part,I will have the stock .38 super converted to
    a "full race" competition gun and expect the above described results. I don't believe that the other caliber has all the advantages of the .38 super.
    Plus if you ever go to Mexico,the .38 super is legal down there because it is not considered a military caliber. 38 super ammo is readily available at most stores.
    Those are MY reasons for a .38 super purchase ! I don't know the difference in the two cartridges so far as ammo prices but I don't believe anyone purchasing either will be buying them for plinking.
    Any different opinions out there? If so ,I would like to know before I throw
    more bucks at this competition thing ! :eek:
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2009

  3. jeepcreep927

    jeepcreep927 New Member

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    The 38 Super is not going to be "more powerful" than a 45 ACP. IPSC power factor was nothing more than a scoring tool created by and exclusively for, IPSC. There is no correlation between IPSC major and minor power factor and real life shootings. "Major" was originally a figure of 175. That is all, just a figure. 175 what? Dunno, just 175.

    Power factor= bullet weight x velocity/ 1000. A standard load for the Super is a 135 grain bullet at 1200 fps. for a "power factor" of 162. That does not put it in "major", as it relates to power factor. You can make major with a 38 Super, but to do that you need to load a heavier bullet, and still push it pretty darn fast, which ups pressures considerably.
     
  4. aoakley1

    aoakley1 New Member

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    Real 38 Super

    [​IMG]
    Picture of me knocking down 4" squares @ 35 yards at Sportsman's Team Challenge Nationals.

    Matt G,
    Not sure exactly what kind of comparison you're looking for but I've been shooting 38 Super since 1994 with a total rounds downrange count of over 150,000 rounds (the majority of which were handloads).

    Factory ammo availability quite definitely goes in favor of 9mm.
    Factory ammo price goes to 9mm.
    Reliability in 1911 style pistols (I personally prefer 38 Super) I can elaborate if you'd like (send PM or better yet, give me a call 318-949-9884 & ask for Renee)
    Making major for USPSA/IPSC Advantage 38 Super
    38 Super is Semi-Rimmed and has a much larger case capacity than 9mm.
    [​IMG]
    9mm in the middle

    9mm: Overall length 1.169" with the case length normally 0.754." Typically, this rimless cartridge measures no more than 0.394 at the rim. (Rimless simply means that the lip of the rim does not extend wider than the case.) Just above the extractor groove, the case is no more than 0.391" wide and tapers to 0.380" at the case mouth. 33,500 to 34,000 PSI range

    .38 Super: Same pressure range as the 9mm. Non-tapered case measuring about 0.384" wide and 0.9" long at the maximum. It is a semi-rimmed cartridge and the rim is approximately 0.406" wide. The cartridge is loaded to a maximum OAL of 1.280." Similar to the .45 ACP OAL of 1.275."
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2009
  5. ladyM

    ladyM New Member

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    Kimber Stainless Target II .38 Super

    Please read this and then decide what ballistics a 38 super is capable of obtaining ! It also refers to the managable recoil of the gun as well as the relative cartridge capabilities when compared to a .45 acp.
    Most info. that I have currently ,has been tendered by a fellow named
    Rob Leatham. You may know of him if you shoot IPSC or are familiar with Springfield Armory. There are many more articles available regarding 38 super
    and its relative merit.
     
  6. ladyM

    ladyM New Member

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    Please consider that a good commercially produced 38super defense load
    being comparable to a .357 will produce the following :
    (also note .45acp muzzle energy)

    Average muzzle energies for common pistol cartridges http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_energy
    Foot-pounds
    9 mm Luger -- 350
    .357 Sig -- 475
    .357 Mag -- 550
    .38 Special -- 310
    10mm Auto -- 650
    .40 SW -- 425
    .44 Mag is missing due to faulty interpretive info.
    .45 ACP -- 400
    .45 Colt -- 370
    .454 Casull -- 1,900
    .460 SW -- 2,400
    .50 AE -- 1,500
    .500 SW -- 2,600
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2009
  7. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    .38 Super rocks.

    Very flat shooting. I use it when ripping around the dez on my ATV down here in SoCal. Some very wide open terrain can lead to some long shots.

    It makes a nice addition to the handgun pile, and fills a niche. Also very pleasant to fire.
     
  8. npbwbass

    npbwbass New Member

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    Like the 38 super love the 9 x 23

    The 39 super is a great performer in my 1911 but the 9 x 23 barrel on the same gun I use shows even more power and a touch better accuracy. Both barrels are Nowlin installed.

    Both of these nines are great on the 1911 for feed and accuracy. I have done some hunting with my 9 x 23 out here in the "dez" of NM with great results.

    On steel however my 9 x 23 is showing much more KE delivered on target than either my 38 super or my 45 ACP does.

    Enjoy what ever you shoot.
     
  9. JiroZero713

    JiroZero713 Active Member

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    I saw with my very own eyes a .38 Super Smith and Wesson I believe in 8 shot with moon clips.....I fell in love with it on first sight when the guy brought it in.
     
  10. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Always wanted a 38 super and a 9x23 as well. I really like the challenge of odd ball calibers.

    aoakley1 you are hot. Will you marry me?
     
  11. mississippirick

    mississippirick New Member

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    Some interesting reading

    The standard .38 special has a muzzle velocity of around 980 fps with a 110 grain bullet whilst the .38 Super +P can go over 1500 fps with the right loads, ie: a 90 grain JHP will have a muzzle velocity of 1,557 fps delivering a massive 485 ft-lb or 658 Joules of energy.

    The maximum pressure level for .38 Super +P is an amazing 36,500 psi. This is actually 500 psi more powerful than the awesome .44 Remington Magnum, which is not exactly underpowered itself, and it makes the .38 Super +P the highest pressure pistol cartridges in the world today for its caliber. Just to compare to a real heavy duty high power cartridge, the megga powerful .454 Casull Magnum produces a collosal 65,000 psi, so the .38 super is over half the power which is monumental for this standard sized round.

    This is why the F.B.I and C.I.A soon adopted the .38 Super +P into its arsenal, as it was a real 'man stopper' even the criminals who took to wearing the early bullet-proof vests were no match for the power of the .38 Super +P that could punch a whole straight through the vest, killing the occupant inside at 50 yards away.

    In the 1930's gangsters, bank robbers and armed fugitives such as John Dillinger were using automobiles during their hold ups and also for the getaway from the crime scene. It was found that the standard issue .38, .38 special or even .45 lacked the velocity needed to propel the bullet adequately through a car door whilst retaining enough energy to mortally injure the occupants at distances over 50 yards.

    In today's high tech world the .38 Super has been equalled with cartridges like the .357 SIG and 9mm parabellum +P, all of which can produce roughly the same power and energy levels as the .38 Super +P. It has been stated though that with the use of modern day powders that the .38 Super +P can equal or at best even supersede all other automatics in both power and accuracy apart from the devastating Desert Eagle automatic in .357magum, .44 magnum and .50 AutoExpress calibers.
     
  12. Gojubrian

    Gojubrian New Member

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  13. Mark F

    Mark F New Member Supporter

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    Agree. The precise definition of PLAGERISM.
     
  14. michigan0626

    michigan0626 New Member

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    if you look at the top of mississippi's post he wrote "Some Interesting Reading"
    implying he got it from a source, he just failed at sighting the source.
     
  15. Gojubrian

    Gojubrian New Member

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    He didn't quote it AND he didn't site the source. He merely copied and pasted, doesn't matter what he implied it's still plagerism.
     
  16. Mark F

    Mark F New Member Supporter

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    All that is needed for someone elses "interesting reading", is a LINK.
     
  17. michigan0626

    michigan0626 New Member

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    you got that
     
  18. Mark F

    Mark F New Member Supporter

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    WRONG...

    All Mississippirick provided was his cut n' paste.
     
  19. michigan0626

    michigan0626 New Member

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    Sorry, you got that is a something we say in prison (Im a CO). it means your right, i was wrong, my bad.
     
  20. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    Wow, a semi-useless thread has degraded into a completely useless e-penis waving fest.