.308 vs .30-06

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by Braeden, Jul 9, 2008.

  1. Braeden

    Braeden New Member

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    Okay i know there very similar and hard to compare but....I'v decided i want to get the Remington Model 700 SPS. The thing i can't decide is which round i want to be firing from it. Im going to be hand-loading the ammo. Its mainly for target shooting but also for using in case of bear attack. Black usually. Probably not a grizzly. I'v fired the .308 and liked it but never fired a .30-06. Recoil isn't that much of a problem for me. (How much more does a .30-06 kick?) Ammo is usually cheaper for a .308 but ill be hand-loading so it doesn't really matter. Im more leaning towards the .308 because its quieter, shorter bolt stroke, Less recoil, cheaper factory ammo. Plus I'm sure it will punch a hole in a bear fairly easily. But i don't know a lot about the .30-06 so I've got a bit of a biased decision. Can someone offer a bit of advice towards the two?

    thank you

    -Braeden
     
  2. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    .308s can be loaded to velocities nearing that of a .30-06 using the same bullet. The only real difference for a real world shooter would then be the stroke of the bolt. The .30-06 doesn't really have that much more recoil than .308 Win when modern high velocity loads are used.

    Just to add to your confusion though, you might want to see if you can get it chambered in .300 WSSM or .300 WSM if bolt stroke is an issue for you. Again, the difference in recoil would be negligible.
     

  3. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    *biting tongue - clicking back*

    Okay, I wasn't going to say anything, but I can't help it.... There is no comparison between the two in my mind. Go with the .06, and this from a guy who built a .308 sniper rig that you can read all about in the Projects section.

    As for the action - That is where I am biting my tongue....

    This was published and met with some argument. So, I will let you decide....

    JD
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2008
  4. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    Can you guys even have 700s in Canadia?
     
  5. Braeden

    Braeden New Member

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    christ i hope so. Why would we not be able to?
     
  6. Braeden

    Braeden New Member

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    well im really glad you pointed this out. Is there another rifle in .30-06 or .308. whichever. That you would suggest as a good "sniping" rifle but is still fairly lightweight.So that i can kind of compare. and make a more informed decision(My dad had a nice .338 but its still a bit to big for me to shoot. I liked it, i just dont know who made it. And i cant find it out either.)
     
  7. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    There are tons of rifles out there brother - tons of actions, tons of customs, tons of factory guns. The market is wide open in the bolt gun world.

    I work in a shop that builds custom boltguns. I work there as an apprentice, part time, but mostly because I get discounts on everything and I get to talk guns all day with the Master 'Smith. I could care less about the take home pay, it all goes back into the shop account anyways. :D

    Brett, my 'smith, took a look at the new Remington Action that is being submitted to the military for their new .338 Lapua long range sniping trials - I posted a review about it earlier. THAT action is apparently the one to buy of all the modern Remington actions if you really want a Remington. It's not available yet, but it will be soon and it is awesome.

    If you are talking "sniping" you are talking a different rifle all together than a hunting or target shooting rifle. Here's a few reasons why.

    Hunting rifles traditionally have thinner barrels, and the weapon is lighter, so that you can hump it day after day. With a hunting rifle, MOA ( Minute of Angle - meaning a 1" group at exactly 100 yards / 2" group at 200 yards / and so on ) is something that is MORE than enough to bring down game. You don't need 1/4 MOA to hit a deer, or a bear, in the "Golden Triangle" to end a threat.

    Sniper Rifles are designed for one purpose. To end a threat, at distance, with the utmost accuracy and lethality. My sniper rig shoots consistant 1/2" MOA - and it will shoot 1/4" on a good day, with good conditions, when the trigger man hasn't had too much soda and isn't stressed out about what he is doing. A weapon that shoots 1 MOA is considered average, and might not be enough to qualify for some departments. For example, the new military contract ( referenced above for the .338 Lapua ) has to have a MINIMUM of 1/2 MOA out to 1,000 yards with three shots. That is a 5" group at 1,000 to qualify. Now we are talking supreme accuracy, but there is another category of shooters that take it whole 'nother level...

    Benchrest Rifles, and the men behind them, are the mad scientists of the world of shooting. Anything you see on the market today, to make you shoot better, like a bubble level that goes on your scope to reduce cant in your hold, was developed moons ago by the old guys who show up every weekend and put round after round downrange seeking the ultimate target. Benchrest guns shoot, on average, better than 1/2 moa. A world record at 1,000 yards used to be 4.2 inches with a 10 shot group! I don't know if that still stands, but it was the record at one time. Now that is some good shooting!

    So, the level of rifle, the level of accuracy and the level of commitment are based on what you are trying to do.

    Don't build a hunting rifle if you want a sniper rig. Don't build a sniper rig if you want to take it hunting. You need to purpose build a weapon for what you are intended to do with it.

    Sniping - Plinking - Hunting are all different categories. So I ask you, what are you trying to accomplish REALLY? Deep down, what would you like this rifle to be able to do in your hands?

    JD
     
  8. Braeden

    Braeden New Member

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    deep down i would like it to snipe. that is my attempt for a career choice after im done school, and would love to start on targets now. but i dont want a rifle that i have to lug around everywhere. id like something to bring camping that will stash in my tent. That i wont get a sore back carrying it for a few hours. The last few points pull it out of the sniper rifle category i think?

    thanks
     
  9. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Agreed. Okay, first, some real facts for you take in.

    1) Snipers are trained to shoot the .308 ( 7.62 x 51mm NATO ) rifle cartridge. It is the most commonly used rifle cartridge in the US for these applications, and other countries, so buying a rifle that shoots a different cartridge, if that is what you REALLY want to do, would be a mistake.

    2) The .308 Rifle cartridge is not the best choice for this application. It is the most popular. There is a big difference.

    3) The .308 Rifle cartridge is not a "starter weapon". If you have a bolt gun background, then it's a normal progression. If you are just starting, I would recommend getting a bolt action .22lr plinker to shoot THOUSANDS of rounds through until you know EXACTLY where that round is going. It won't cost you an arm and a leg and it will be great for training.

    4) Sniping as an MOS is a VERY select skillset. It is not something that everyone who shoots a rifle well can do. If you REALLY want to pursue this, there are some books you need to read.

    Marine Sniper: 93 Kills
    Ultimate Sniper - By John Plaster
    Sniper / Sniper II - Lonsdale
    Death from Afar series - Brigade Armory

    Those will tell you FAR more than the movies ever could, and give you chilling glimpse into what goes into making this a discipline...

    JD
     
  10. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    What makes you think you're qualified as a sniper and who do you plan on sniping for?
     
  11. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Oooh! Oooh! I bet I know the answer to that one.... :)

    JD ( Horseshack )
     
  12. Braeden

    Braeden New Member

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    didn't say I'm qualified. i want to pursue it and try to pass my marksman's course. And as for who ill be sniping for, Canadian Forces if i qualify....
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2008
  13. anm2_man

    anm2_man Member

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    Braeden

    Just one thing - if you buy one I don't think the caliber matters, But I know that Remington offers a HEAVY BARREL - The only way to go.
     
  14. Braeden

    Braeden New Member

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    straight answer. thx
     
  15. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    Good luck. Like JD said, you'll probably want to start small and burn as much ammo as you can afford. Grow into the service calibers.

    Thanks for want to serve as well.
     
  16. Braeden

    Braeden New Member

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    alright. thanx.
     
  17. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    2,430 meters sound about right Braeden? ;)

    JD
     
  18. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    They're required to take shots at a mile and half, or is that in reference to something else in the thread?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2008
  19. Braeden

    Braeden New Member

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    depending on the caliber and rifle, sure why not.
     
  20. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    In Afghanistan, in March of 2002, The longest-ever confirmed sniper kill was made by either Master Cpl. Arron Perry OR Corporal Robert Perry ( Depending on the story reference material ) of the Canadian Armed Forces in Afghanistan during combat. Using a .50-caliber MacMillan TAC-50 rifle, Perry shot and killed an Afghan soldier from a distance of 2,430 metres.

    The record was set during Operation Anaconda when a Canadian three-man sniper team from the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, (PPCLI), set the new record with a shot on a Taliban fighter.

    For those of you wondering, that bullet would have dropped over 44 feet during it's flight, which would have had it in the air, approximately, four full seconds.

    Took him two shots, but DAMN!!!

    JD