3-18X50 scope The rifle or the scope?????

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by locutus, Oct 10, 2020.

  1. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    An old hunting buddy just bought A Ruger precision rifle in 6.5 PCR. He's a half decent shade tree gunsmith and he "slicked it up" a bit and put in a Timney trigger.

    rugerprc.jpeg

    He topped it off with a Kahles 318i 3-18X50 scope in a (I think) Spuhr mount. That damned el-cheapo Ruger shoots 800 yard groups of 4-5 inches with Hornady 147 grain factory ammo.

    More evidence, IMHO, that the quality of the scope is a hell of a lot more important to accuracy than the quality of the rifle.
     
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  2. Rifling82

    Rifling82 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Had to look it up, Holy crap, $3,000 scope
     

  3. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

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    Yep, Those Ruger PR's are some great shooter's just like most Savage and Tikka rifles.

    It also doesn't hurt to put top tier glass on them either.

    If you want to accurately shoot long range, great working scopes are a have to have piece of equipment. You gotta pay to play!
    I have several top tier scopes, and they are worth every penny you spend on them.
    An entry level long range scope will start off in the $1k - $1700 range, and the better one's are $2k - $3k.
    If you have unlimited funds, then you can step up to the Alpha class scopes like Zero Compromise and Tangent Theta in the $4k range.
     
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  4. AgedWarrior

    AgedWarrior Well-Known Member

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    While I cannot afford the really high end optics like described in this thread, I always seek to put the best optics I can on my rifles, which typically means the scopes cost as much, but typically more than the rifles. You cannot typically achieve first rate accuracy with a second rate scope...
     
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  5. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

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    That's very good thinking.
    Most people don't even think about buying used scopes when looking at getting a scope. That's the first place I look.
    You can buy twice the quality / class of scope for about the same price that you would spend in the first place.

    In general, people that spend $1500 - $3k+ on scopes take care of their stuff. A lot of them also have the mind set that they have to have the latest and greatest scopes that hit the market. So, every year or two, they upgrade and dump their used scopes for a big discount.
    Most companies also warranty the scopes even if you aren't the original owner.

    You can also get great deals when a company comes out with an upgraded model of a scope, and then dumps the previous model to get rid of inventory.
    Athlon Optics did it with a few model's a couple years ago. I bought a $2k Cronus for $1k,and an $850 Ares BTR for $500 when they came out with the Gen 2 versions.
    You just have to look for the deals when they come up.
     
  6. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Had a Remington 700 .243 for several years, back when. Heavy 26" barrel, and factory X-Mark trigger. Shot a couple hundred rounds through it. Then, had a Jewell trigger professionally installed. Cut the groups @ 300yds in half. Had a custom stock made by a superb shop that specializes in custom-fab of glass/composite stocks. Cut the groups in half again. Added a 8-24x50 scope with modest optics, and I could finally see where the shots struck beyond 50yds. (Old eyes.)

    In my case, the trigger was probably the best improvement, followed by the custom-built and -bedded stock. Made mid-range accuracy child's play. The scope allowed me to just barely see the .243 holes at 300yds; overkill for "only" 300yds distance.

    Was a ~$500 gun, $250 trigger install (parts+labor), $1K stock, and $200 glass. Had I kept the gun, I'd almost certainly have put decent >$1K glass on it.

    By comparison, a custom sporterized Mauser 7x57mm someone at the range let me shoot was ridiculously simple to shoot accurately. I can't recall whether it was fully blueprinted, but I wouldn't be surprised. Custom "standard hunting" type stock. Perfect balance. Smooth, lighter trigger. Didn't shoot it beyond 100yds, so I've no idea what it's longer-range accuracy was like. Though, I'm betting that Mauser could have held its own compared to the customized Rem 700 .243 I had.

    Amazing, what those three components can do for accuracy, though: trigger; stock/bedding; and (at distance) a decent scope.
     
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  7. Les Moore

    Les Moore Well-Known Member

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    You can always tell who has experience with scopes. The ones with little experience with optics are worried they will spend too much, on a scope. The folks with a lot of experience with scopes are always worried they won't spend enough.
     
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  8. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

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    That really isn't true.
    Most people buy scopes at least by brand wise because that's the brand that their family, friend's, etc. use and swear by.
    Leupold is one such brand. You couldn't give me one.
    Are they good scopes? Some are,but for the price of most Leupold's you can buy a far better European scope that blows them away in almost any category.

    Then you have the more magnification is better crowd. They go out and buy a cheap brand X scope that has poor quality glass, internal components, and lousy tracking.
    And they will put these scopes on hunting rifles that most won't shoot past 200 yards in their entire lives.

    You have to match the scope to the purpose that the gun will be used, and then buy the best scope that you can afford.
    Scopes have gotten so much better in the last 20 years. Before that 3x and 4x magnification was as good as is got. Today, there are scopes that have 5x - and up to 8x magnification. So as a shooter, you can actually have a scope that can be used in up close situations, and also be able to crank up the magnification for long range use or visual conformation on the target/animal you intend to shoot.

    Knowledge is the best tool you can have when shopping for a scope, and I'm not talking about reading reviews or watching youtube video's.
    If you learn how a scope actually works, and how the lens coatings modify the light transmitted to the shooter, you can understand why scopes vary in price so much.
     
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  9. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Locutus,

    Yes a person needs to buy the best Scope they can afford.
    We tell the students in the Sniper/Observer Schools them or their agency should consider buying the best Scope they can afford and "then" buy a Rifle to go with it.
    You can't shoot what you can't see it clearly. And a lot of inexpensive scopes do not have top quality glass. And also they will not Track and return to the same Zero if using a First Focal Plane with Mil Dots for ranging. Most of the lesser expensive scopes are Second Focal Plain Scopes and must be Zeroed at the Power Setting the shooter plans on using. Most are to be zeroed at the highest power setting on the scope.
    But Locutus you are right! The Ruger Precision Rifle is one fine Rifle. And also in 308 or the 6.5 Creedmoore. We tested one at the S/O School two years ago. It was fantastic to say the least!:)

    03
     
  10. Mercator

    Mercator Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of. Which 223 bolt action you buy today for less than $800 to hit bullseye at 100 yards?
     
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  11. Rifling82

    Rifling82 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I bet you have a lot of good stories Sniper
     
  12. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Rifling

    Thank You!
    Yes, I have been blessed to do what I love most of my life and experience the ride I have had. In fact today I continue to be blessed today as I teach the law enforcement and government schools and meet some wonderful people. As many of us here, wish we were writers and also had the time to personally share each others life's experiences with our good friends here on the FTF in person. I am sure we would need a lot of sipping Whiskey, Beers or Ice Tea to accomplish it! :p I am sure you and many others have some great stories and experiences to share with all of us. Obviously on the Forum the best we can do is give our friends a "small glimpse" of some of our experiences in the things we Posts.:)

    03
     
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  13. Gatoragn

    Gatoragn Well-Known Member Supporter

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    CZ 527
     
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  14. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    At 100 yards??? Damn near any of them.
    Mossberg, CZ, Savage, etc.
     
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  15. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I, too, would probably select a CZ 527 in .223 (FS or Lux, discontinued), if wanting a .223 for accurate target shooting. Nicely made, good quality, accurate. Though I suspect they'd be nearly as accurate at 300yds, assuming I did my job.


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    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
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  16. Mowgli Terry

    Mowgli Terry Active Member

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  17. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Those would be great rifles if they would get rid of those damnable wooden stocks.
     
  18. Gatoragn

    Gatoragn Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I thoroughly enjoy totin' my would stocked CZ 527 carbine.

    To each their own.
     
  19. AgedWarrior

    AgedWarrior Well-Known Member

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    I like my CZ 527. I do wish they would make the carbine in 6.5 Grendel, but I like the American...
     
  20. Gatoragn

    Gatoragn Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Mine is the beechwood stock and is 7.62x39, a great close range deer rifle.

    I also have a 527 in .223/5.56 with a synthetic stock.
     
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