2nd Amendment-less: a disturbing story

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by zhuk, Jan 29, 2011.

  1. zhuk

    zhuk New Member

    I've lifted this remarkable story which happened last night, from a local forum (courtesy of afrattner). I could hardly believe the cops would ever advise someone in such a way. Holy effing hell:

    Obviously according to them, he should have waited until the criminal did break in, and then take his chances on the guy being armed with something and have to defend himself then (naturally being careful to use only the absolutely commensurate force needed - or else)

    I mean WTF man :eek:
  2. dog2000tj

    dog2000tj New Member

    That is seriously messed up. :eek: I just can't for the life of me wrap my head around how you folks down under ever got to this stage in the first place. :confused:

    Stay safe Z

  3. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

    1. Open the door and beat the tar out of him. The use of a blunt object is perfectly acceptable.

    2. Toss him in the street.

    3. Call the Police and report the Hit & Run accident.

    4. Go back to bed.
  4. zhuk

    zhuk New Member

    Something to do with a penal colony which must be controlled, dog :rolleyes:

    Honestly deep down I think that is really how our "leaders" view the population...can't be trusted you have to let the authorities take care of everything. Yeah, take care of roping off the crime scene and collecting evidence after the fact, IMO.

    Here's a good reply from that post. Sums up what most of the aussie shooters there feel:

  5. zhuk

    zhuk New Member


    Ha I like that, CA :D

    You even get 'rubbish-collection' thrown in at no expense to you lol
  6. bkt

    bkt New Member

    The message I came away with is "Don't call the cops." Deal with the problem yourself. Seriously, when you try to abide by the law but law enforcement takes 47 minutes to show up when they know time is short, there's your first clue you're wasting your time and theirs. The second clue is putting yourself at risk of legal prosecution for doing what's right: killing or otherwise incapacitating the bad guy.

    I love the rule of law, but laws have to serve people. When they don't, and the laws in AU around home invasions sure don't as this case demonstrates, I'm not sure adhering to the law is very smart, cost-effective, or prone to extending your life expectancy.
  7. rjd3282

    rjd3282 New Member

    when you call the cops just tell them you shot the bg already and watch how fast they get there.
  8. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

    A senior citizen called in a burglary report. 3 men were breaking into his tool shed. The police told him they more urgent business and would not be able to get there for an hour. He hung up and a few minutes later he called them back and told them to take their time as he shot all 3 of them. The police were there in a few minutes with several cars and caught the burglars red handed. The officer in charge asked the old man why he said he shot them. The old man asked why they said they could not get there for an hour.
    Dont know if it is true or not but it sounds good.
    I know this is true. The police watched as burglars broke into a house and left with their loot. They did not stop them but followed them trying to get information on a burglary ring. This cost the police big time when the facts came out. The owner had money, a lawyer and a very angry insurance company. The thieves got a million dollar coin collection and the police let them get a way with it. The city had to pay for damages and loss.
  9. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

    I guess the thing to do when you have the cops on the phone is to tell them you shot the guy.

    They would be there in a New York minute and probably have to take the guy into custody!!
  10. zhuk

    zhuk New Member


    In Australia you could be charged with murder, manslaughter, or illegal discharge of a weapon with intent to cause grevious bodily harm at the very least, depending on how the district public prosecutor viewed the case. Even having a dog could be no protection - dog rips crim apart it would be euthanased, no doubt resulting in "possession of a dangerous dog" charge.

    PLUS using a firearm for an illegal purpose...lose all your guns, your licence forever and get a probable jail term into the bargain. Naturally crims will illegal weapons to start with end up with more lenient treatment :rolleyes:

    The crim could possibly charge YOU as well, if he lived.

    One of the suggestions from the forum:

    Hmm never thought of that one.
  11. jamesb

    jamesb New Member

    This is just nuts...I wonder where were going to be in ten years when the law is telling us we can't protect ourselves.
  12. bkt

    bkt New Member

    Right, exactly. So what's the incentive to call the cops at all then?
  13. Bigdog57

    Bigdog57 New Member

    Hmmm..... how close are you to where the Salties are.....?

    I am a quick ten minute drive to the swamp - I know where the BIG gators are...... <cue local newsreport> "Remains of man found in local swamp, victim of alligator attack - more news at eleven!"


    Of course here in sunny Florida, I am perfectly within the law to protect self and home. Just make him turn to face me before shooting the scum. A crowbar is a dandy weapon - I feared for my life........ :rolleyes:
  14. zhuk

    zhuk New Member

    Well that is a moot point isn't it, bkt. Personally though, living in a block of flats anything a bit overt is going to be heared and probably reported. So you get that visit from the cops either way. Hence there's the problem of explaining how you managed to unlock the safe key box & then the safe, unlock the separate ammo cabinet, load, all before an intruder gets 2ft into the room :rolleyes: And if you happened to have a firearm already loaded :eek: you'd go down faster than a Kings Cross hooker lol

    Alas, I'm several 1000kms from any salties, Bigdog heh. Nice idea though. I was talking about this to my half brother in England; he was a pub landlord for many years and this was his advice:

    One of my regulars was a firearms officer locally. His advice was - make sure you kill them so there is no arguing about compensation and shoot them in the front so it can be argued they were coming for you. Then put one of your kitchen knives or a craft knife in their hand and make sure there are lots of fingerprints on it.

    I know he once surprised a burgular who had broken in downstairs, armed himself with a pump action (you can still have those in the UK) and all it took was a yelled warning and a "ker-chunk!" chambering and the guy took off...leaving a large knife he had pinched from the pub's kitchen. Can't argue with a shottie :D
  15. Swampbilly

    Swampbilly New Member

    What has happened in Australia is very similar as what has happened in England...the citizens have allowed their governments to not only ban many of their firearms, and heavily regulate the others, but have also allowed their politicians to legislate away their natural, God-given rights of self defense. That really shows a complete lack of respect for the populace by elitist politicians.

    Basicaly, it is near illegal for them to defend themselves from personal attack...the criminal truely has more rights than the victim...especially in England.

    Truly tragic, and unless Americans remain ever vigilant and push back strongly against ANY and ALL anti-self defense legislation, I'm convinced there are politicans in America who would have us in the same situation.


    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  16. zhuk

    zhuk New Member


    There most probably are US politicians with the same designs on trashing your rights in mind...but the point is they are RECOGNISED AS INNATE RIGHTS to start with, so you have something concrete to defend with. Might seem strange, but Australia has no Bill of Rights and we are not considered to be born with the right to bear arms (which your 2nd Amendment says "shall not be infringed" by Govt). We don't even have a written, codified right to free speech. All the Aust Constitution guarantees is

    1) the right to be judged by your peers
    2) the right not to have a religion imposed on you by the State.

    And that's the sum total of our 'rights' in law.

    Unlike America, shooters represented such a small percentage of the population and a marginalised one at that - that there was either almost total agreement or a noncommittal 'don't care' view in the wider community that the 1996 bans were all for the common good. The way shooters were hounded and demonised by practically every media outlet at that time still lingers in many quarters today. Its not as though any more than about 5% of the adult (not total) population was affected as shooters. Compare that with the number of firearm owners in the US and there is no contest...you have numbers behind you to try and thwart any Govt oppression.

    Not to mention a social history of such thwarting!

    I know England is getting bad; there's a running joke that knife-wielding chavs roaming the streets are simply taking part in a community youth diversion scheme :rolleyes:
  17. ApacheBunny

    ApacheBunny New Member

    yeah its not just England, in Belgium there are hardly gun rights, its not as bad as England or Australia but they don't have a right to defend themselves against attackers with lethal or non lethal force, this part hurts me to say it but my wife wasn't able to defend herself against a rapist, also when her crazy dad came rolling around, so the first 16 years of her life she was living in fear. So at least when it comes to around where I live, guy is threatening you in your own house kill the bastard "dead men tell no tales"
  18. Laufer

    Laufer New Member

    One of these days the whole family of a prominent personality will be murdered in the UK or Australia.

    This basically happened in CT several months ago except that the father barely survived.

    This was in the daytime, and the difference will be that the victims over there have no legal method to protect themselves against career criminals.
  19. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

    Yanno, the first thing LE sanctimoniously blathers if you don't call them first is

    "Why didn't you call us?" somehow responding with "Well, because of my

    prior experience with LEOs of the last 35 years, I have no valid reason to

    depend upon,trust, or respect you..." DOESN'T SEEM TO SINK IN .

    I selected where I live now, because this state has Castle Doctrine, and issues CWPs.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
  20. PrimePorkchop

    PrimePorkchop New Member

    in my opinion, the best thing a person can do is learn their local laws, that way you can formulate a plan of action in case something ever were to happen. I don't want someone to break into my house - but like the original posts story, I too came very close to having someone come through my sliding glass door, they were scared away and later caught by the police though...but don't kid yourself that i was not literally setting in the dark with my gun, ready to shoot.

    I don't take pleasure in the idea, but I do take pleasure in justice. And sending some scum ball to jail for a night, and out on bail the next day for breaking into a law abiding citizens home is NOT Justice.

    you can use this link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine - as a starting point if you're interested :)

    Of course, don't trust everything you read on Wikipedia...find it on your states .gov website (or call someone) and verify it before you ever put it to practice.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2011