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Discussion in 'Semi-Auto Handguns' started by cooldude, Jun 5, 2012.
What do y'all think about this caliber?any Good for self defense at all?
You'd be better off with a sharp stick.
Purely personal opinions- marginally better than a 22 LR in a pistol, since the semi-rimmed case feeds better, and the centerfire cartridge is a tad more reliable. Other than that, it is too small and too light to have significant stopping power.
Even John Browning could have an off day, y'know.
One table of "one shot stops" shows the performance of the .25 in actual use to be about 27%. If 100 attackers were shot with a .25, 27 of them would be stopped with one hit. The .357 Magnum has a 96% rate.
It has low recoil, and is typically chambered in very small "vest pocket" guns. These can be difficult to shoot well since it is hard to get a grip on something that small- commonly, 2 fingers only will fit on the grip.
Problem is compounded by its use in pistols that are frequently of questionable quality and reliability. There is a lot of difference between a Baby Browning and a Jiminez or Raven.
It would not be my first choice. If it were my ONLY choice, would be aware that this may not stop the zombies, and have a plan B.
It will do the job if you stick it in the perps ear & press the trigger repeatably---LOL
The .25acp is an up-close gun. Stick it under the perp's chin and empty the clip. I carry the .22lr as an CCW and have not problem sticking it in the eye of a perp and unloading.
I carry a .25 as a secondary gun and as my main home defense gun. The .25 is very easy to conceal and you don't have to get into knife range if you have to use it. As far as using it for home defense that is because I live in an apartment and have already seen that a 9mm will penetrate a head,bed,floor and end up lodged in a wall in the next apartment down. I imagine a chest shot would pass through the next apartment and exit the building. Don't need that headache.
If you want a claiber that is good for self defense, ask yourself this:
If I were in a pen with a 150# wild pig, hell bent on doing me harm, what would give me the advantage?
If you would not use a .25 caliber is such a situation, then why depend on it against a 200# bad guy.
If I were in a pen with a hog as described and could choose my weapon, it would be a 12 gauge shotgun. But, those are difficult to carry concealed so, I make compromises.
If a .25 is all you have, carry it. No one will want to be shot with it. If you have some choice in the matter, even the .22 LR has been shown to be a better "one shot fight stopper" and the ammo will be cheaper to boot.
If you want a true pocket gun, don't want a lot of recoil, and would like to stick to centerfire options, then a good .32 ACP might be a worthy option to consider.
As the others said, it's a very, very close range round. That said, I have an old Raven pocket pistol that cost me around $70 brand new when I bought it and it's pretty fun to shoot and try to actually hit something with. My kids named it "The Noisy Cricket" after the gun in "Men in Black" but it has nowhere the punch of that thing!
It would be very low on my list of self defense rounds but better than nothing. At contact range or close to it, a few rounds in the face would deter a bad guy.
Used to be an old joke about some guns that are meant to be used in a two handed stance.
One hand holds the pistol. The other hand holds the shoulder of your opponent.
Assuming that you have a .25 that functions reliably, it's better than nothing. Punch enough holes, and even a dedicated bad guy may rethink his plan.
.380s are everywhere in different shapes & sizes, at all sorts of price points. Why bother with a .25?
The first rule of a gunfight is to have a gun.
Because super-small .380s SUCK to shoot.
So do .357 snubbies with full tilt ammo. People buy and carry them too. Near as I can tell, this was never about range guns.
In a similar sized pistol, you might as well get to something adequate. Even if it's less than a joyous experience to shoot.
I'm going to take a couple major steps here.
First, you can't get a 9mm for whatever reason,
because you would have taken it over a .32 or
.380, if you could have.
Second, most .25s I've used are fairly crappy, and the ammo
is limited and expensive.
So, given the much better choices of quality .22LR pistols and
ammo, my attitude is if I'm going to go down to .25, I might as
well embrace the finer aspects of the .22LR caliber CC pistols.
I believe the .25 ACP the .32 ACP and the .380 ACP were all brainchilds of John Moses Browning. JMB was the most prolific and successful firearm designer of our time with many of his designs still serving militaries, sportsmen, LEO's, and armed citizens around the globe...HOWEVER, no one is perfect and IMHO all 3 of these cartridges are unsuitable for personal defense, even in the BUG role.
Honestly, I think they were all developed around the turn of the last century as Browning was tinkering with blow back designs before he struck gold with his tilt barrel, locked breech 1911 which enabled the use of more powerful cartridges like the .45 ACP. Of course being in business to earn a living JMB still sold production rights to these cartridges along with some nifty pocket pistol designs to fire them and effective or not, they sold quite well.
Regardless, I still consider them to be "stepping stones" on the path of invention that led to the .45 ACP and the 1911 pistol. Interestingly however, while most "stepping stone" inventions are relegated to the trash heap, "think BETA before VHS or VHS before the Compact Disk", these noisy cricket calibers seem to endure?
I feel this endurance is due soley to the tiny Carry guns chambered for them and the tiny price point they are offered at.
I'll admit, I too fell victim to the mystique of the pocket pistol when NAA introduced thier Guardian in .32 ACP and even carried it for a short time.
I'm glad I've not yet needed my CCW and very grateful I did not need it when the only thing I had was a .32 stuck in the coin pocket of my Jeans.
The ballistic data I've seen shows little difference between the major calibers of 9 mm, .40 S&W, .45ACP, .357 and .44 BUT they do show a considerable drop in performance for anything .380 or smaller.
Given the array of uber compact 9 mm's and even the new tiny XDS in .45 ACP, I see no reason to handicap yourself with a sub caliber sidearm. Especially when you'll spend the initial purchase savings on more expensive ammo over time anyway.
Just my .02 cents
You know, I've not found this to be particularly true. I've had a 2" m19 and found it to be very pleasant to shoot. My 3" M60 wasn't bad unless you were shooting heavy 180 gr. hunting loads. Even my uncles scandium framed S&W isn't too bad for small amounts of shooting.
Micro .380s (like the S&W Sigma I had), on the other hand, are flat out tortuous to shoot. I couldn't even get through a single magazine without stopping to rest my hand and wrist.
I guess I'm just a wimp but, if I'm going to carry one of these little micro guns, the .380s are out. I'll take a .32 ACP in something like a Beretta Tomcat instead.
Thanks soo much for the info guys! Btw I'm new to this
Rack the slide on any .25, or small caliber auto, and lock it
into the battery position. (back) Hold the gun, and see if the
crook of your hand rides into the bottom of the rear of the
An additional drawback to small autos is the beavertail
which protects your hand with larger autos is either
insignificant, or non-existent.
Which translates to the danger of being cut between the
thumb and forefinger, in the crook of your hand,
when you shoot. ln an emergency or trouble situation,
an injury like this could be very inconvenient...
Maybe I'm closed-minded, or even misinformed. But I honestly can't think of anything to like about a 25acp pistol.
I'd imagine somewhere there exists a few decent guns chambered in this caliber, maybe even "classics". But C3 pretty well covered it. This is a less than common (translation: often expensive/hard to find ammo) caliber, with truly anemic potency, that is delivered almost exclusively from piss-poor "Saturday Night Special" type platforms. That recipe is riddled with headaches.
I can't imagine why someone wouldn't prefer a micro 9mm, 38sp, 380acp, or even 327mag. There are some platforms that'll rattle your bones in these calibers, but there are also relatively soft-shooting alternatives for each as well.
If you're looking at 25acps simply because they're ultra affordable (like Raven Arms), STOP! Realistically, you're probably simply throwing money away...which sort of defies the whole budget concept. You'd be better off with an affordable 22lr or even a Hi-Point C9.