Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Ztrain13, Dec 11, 2018.
Anyone shoot Hornadys .223 rem 35 gr NTX out of AR platform with a barrel twist of 1:8?
personally I haven't shot any that lightweight in my AR's. but, i have had good luck with most Hornady ammo and bullets.
that might be a too fast a barre twist ratio for that light a bullet, and I'd venture something more like about of 1:10 to 1:12 for that ammo.
both my AR's have 1:9 barrels, and the lowest weight bullets i shoot accurately are 53 gr. bullets. you might just have to buy a box and try them out in your AR and see what accuracy results you achieve.
Sounds doable based on Hornady's verbage, "Optimal results are achieved in all firearms, and Superformance Varmint ammunition is safe to use in all action types, including semi-autos."
IMO, I think his 1:8 barrel might be tad fast for that particular bullet and weight. with that light weight a bullet, I'm thinking along the lines of 1:10 to about 1:12 barrel twist ratio. saftery I don't think is the problem, but poor accuracy, because of bullet instability in that 1:8 barrel.
I've heard before that it's basically impossible to overstabilize a bullet.
If Hornady is claiming the bullet can handle the RPM's of semi-auto's, I'd be willing to give it a shot.
Fwiw, I've shot 50gr bullets from 1:7 twists with decent accuracy. Never tried 35's.
I agree, that is why I suggested the OP give some a try. and if Hornady says it's good to go, I'd sure try it out! I have had great luck over the years with Hornady products.
I think you are right, it'll probably work fine to very good, but probably not the Nth degree of accuracy.
I saw this over on accurateshooter, "It is generally believed that, for match bullets, best accuracy is achieved at the minimal spin rates that will fully stabilize the particular bullet at the distances where the bullet must perform. That’s why short-range 6PPC benchrest shooters use relatively slow twist rates, such as 1:14″, to stabilize their short, flatbase bullets. They could use “fast” twist rates such as 1:8″, but this delivers more bullet RPM than necessary. Match results have demonstrated conclusively that the slower twist rates produce better accuracy with these bullets."
Still looking for someone who has actually has shot 35 gr through 1:8 twist before I potentially waste the money on a box the ammo. Wanting to know if there is a noticeable decrease or any change in accuracy compare to a 55 gr . I am looking for a faster round for varmint hunting and the 35 gr Hornady seems to be the fastest I have found with a great amount of deliverable energy, just not wanting to sacrifice accuracy at all. I would shoot a higher grain bullet if it had a faster muzzle velocity. Is it possible to get let’s say a 45-55 gr bullet to reach 4000 FPS safely?
you might do some research into the 224 Valkyrie. they have uppers for the AR's. might be something to consider and look into.
personally, I have shot quite a bit of Hornady ammo, just nothing with that light weight of a bullet in my AR's.. mine have 1:9 barrels, so I would have to do the same as you, just buy a box and try it out. unfortunately, 5.56 and 223, I just don't reload for at this time. if I did, I'd load some up with 35 gr. bullets and give them a try.
unless you go with a cartridge with more case capacity, it's going to be hard to break that 4000 fps muzzle velocity range. it can be done, but, personally, I just don't see it happening with the 223, even using really light weight bullets.
now there are options, depending upon how much money you are willing to spend.
Just checking my Lee manual. The max load for the 45gr is 3602 fps. Don't be surprised if the 35gr, 4,000 fps claim is obtainable only in a 24" test barrel. Shooting an AR, you won't get Hornady's claimed velocity.
FWIW, it's only one box of ammo at stake. If it doesn't group well, stick it back on the shelf and break it out when you need to get your next AR sighted in/on paper.
Before I reloaded, I had about 20+ different partial boxes from trying to find the "right" factory ammo that shot well in my rifles. I'd have been better served by reloading earlier on.
What do you recon the muzzle velocity of the Hornady 35 gr is out of an 18" barrel if they claim it is 4000 fps out of a 24" barrel?
results will be different for every rifle, and it also depends upon other factor such as type and burn rate of the powder used in the cartridge. here is real world test of various barrel lengths in AR uppers.
I found this muzzle velocity calculator. I plugged in 24" in barrel length and then adjusted the powder charge until I got real close to 4000 fps, (4011 fps.) then plugged in a 35 gr. bullet. then I simply changed barrel length to 18", and they recalculated which gave me a muzzle velocity of 3813 fps. so not a huge difference. less than 200 fps.
it does not show what the difference would be in a barrel with different barrel twist ratios. in all seriousness, the only real way you are going to know, is to go out and buy a box, get a chronograph, and some targets and verify muzzle velocities and accuracy results for yourself. any one of us can guess and estimate, but every rifle is going to be different. there are way too many variables to give an exact answer to the questions you are asking. all of this I provided, are nothing more that estimates of what they might be.
If you have to go to the extreme end of the cartridge to get the performance you want, it's the wrong cartridge for your application.
If speed is really that important, your options are 224 Valkyrie for the AR15 platform, or 22-250/.220 Swift or similar for bolt guns.
Consider the effect of the wind on those low bc bullets. The 35gr may help you deal with drop, but introduces new problems with windage adjustment.
I agree Mr. Shopfox. excellent point. now I have applied that more to pistol cartridges than rifle cartridges, and it's excellent advice.
Late to the party but I'll just share some data for future people searching for 16"/faster-twist info (what led me here).
I did some 10-round group tests of various factory ammo for varmint and pig control on December 24, 2018.
Bravo Company Recce 16" (Enhanced Light-Weight profile barrel) unmodified, 1:7 twist
Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 1-6x
Benchrest was a plastic-top folding table (heh, don't hate me, it was what I had) so most of the flyers were me derping.
SD were directly proportional to price point, with Frontier and Golden Bear obviously being much worse, and the 77gr stuff being much better. That said, I think the Fiocchi was something like 23SD and 41 max spread; it was very, very consistent.
Gold bear 62gr sp
2702 avg fps
Hornady 35gr ntx
Frontier 75gr bthp
Fed premium 77gr Sierra matchking bthp
*Fiocchi 223mkd 77gr match king hpbt
2493 (best performer!)
2513 avg on day 2
Hornady 75gr 5.56 superformance match
(Side note: the 5.56 Superformance shot significantly better than the .223 Superformance in the same 75gr)
PPU 75gr matchline bthp
The two rounds the BCM clearly liked were the Hornady 35gr NTX and the Fiocchi 77gr Exacta Sierra Match King BTHP. All of the others were "acceptable" but well over 1 MOA. We did some other 62-68gr FMJBT stuff but none of those were worth noting (usually 2+ MOA @100yds) and some were frankly atrocious, with one round shooting 5.4MOA. Probably should have taken notes anyway but this was a "fit-for-purpose" test session. Frankly, I had no idea the Fiocchi would be that accurate in a 16" light-weight barrel, nor did I expect the 35gr to do anything worth noting in a 1:7 twist. Two targets are labeled Varminter I left in for comparison (24" barrel); all others are the BCM.
Hope this serves as useful to somebody.