223 case mouth rolls when seating projectile

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Gunny65, Feb 5, 2010.

  1. Gunny65

    Gunny65 New Member

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    Hey all,

    I have a Dillon 550 and am using carbide 223 dies to reload. Every once in awile, at least twice in 20 rounds, as I seat a projectile the case mouth rolls inward on one side of the case mouth as the projectile seats. I think I know why, the projectile is not held in a striaght up and down position as it enters the die and therefore it at a slight angle as it runs up and into the seating portion of the die. Sound about right?

    Now, you can't hold the projectile once it enters the seating die so once it is inside the bottom of the die it is...out of your hands so to speak. The projectiles are being seated to the proper length. I set them to an OAL of about 2.050. That works well in my AR. Does anyone have a fix or do I just go ahead and run it through the crimp die and hope it stripes that small roll of brass off and trim the case when it comes through to be reloaded again?

    I would rather be able to fix the roll in the first place but moving the die up or down is pointless since the initial opening of the die must accomodate the case all the way down to the...well almost all the way down to the extractor groove. Hopefully someone else has this problem and can help.

    Thanks All
     
  2. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Are you chamfering the case mouths after trimming? Do you have any pics? I am having a hard time visualizing this. It is just on one side, correct? Are you using a flat base or boat tail bullet?
     

  3. willfully armed

    willfully armed New Member

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    Sounds like the case mouth isn't being properly resized. Perhaps too small. Are you trimming the cases to length?

    I have also never seen carbide bottleneck case dies.
     
  4. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Dillon makes carbide dies in .223 and .308. Yes, very expensive.
     
  5. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    $125+ for them dies. MY GOD and they don't do anything other than last a bit longer. My god how long do they need to last? I was reloading on dies that were 40 or 50 years old when I was a kid.

    I believe you are either not expanding the case mouth enough or your not chamfering your case mouth and deburing it. Your also yankin that handle to fast I bet.

    I prefer the Hornaday dies myself. as they have a sliding seating that aligns the bullet and case-mouth very well before seating begins.

    Also I do believe that Dillon has a spot on the powder drop that flares the case mouth slightly this may only be with straight wall pistols and rifle cartridges.
     
  6. Gunny65

    Gunny65 New Member

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    Yeah, the carbide dies are a bit spendy but since I had a few extra bucks, I put up the extra for carbide. :)

    No, I was not chamfering the casings. I didn't think about it since I was using brand new casings. Guess I should have thought about that though. Thanks.

    I can't get a picture of it. I don't have the means. But, it is only on one side and it only affects about 1/4 or less of the mouth just slightly rolls inward. I tried running a few of those rounds through the crimp die and it shaved off the excess rolled over brass but you could see a small "U" radius right where the case had folded over. I didn't care for that so they are coming apart.

    I can see about the sizing part but it is just slightly larger than the projo. I think it sizes to about .225 or .226

    I checked lengths and they are good. I had to resize some of my used brass but the new stuff was good to go. I have measured everything again and the dies and brass are within tolerance and the finished length is good. I will chamfer and let you know.
     
  7. Highpower

    Highpower New Member

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    I agree that chamfering your cases should be first priority but I think I would remove the seating stem from the die and run a few empty cases through it and see what happens. Maybe the neck is catching on a sharp edge or burr inside the die? :confused:
     
  8. W. C. Quantrill

    W. C. Quantrill New Member

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    Chamfer your cases and set your expander down a half a turn or so and get a wee bit more bell on the case mouth. On your 4 die block it is your 2nd die, under your powder measure. Turn it down just a wee bit so that the base of your bullet will just start to go in. Your 3rd die seats the bullet and the 4th die will crimp it if you are crimping.
     
  9. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    Are you lubing any of the cases?
     
  10. W. C. Quantrill

    W. C. Quantrill New Member

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    I forgot to say I also use a neck brush and roll it on the lube pad and lube my case necks.
     
  11. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    Every case?

    Don't think with the carbide die you need to lube more than one in five.

    Be sure you're not over-lubing them.
     
  12. W. C. Quantrill

    W. C. Quantrill New Member

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    True. I do not use carbide dies. I chamfer my cases after length trimming if I do length trim, and then run the neck brush in each case. Then roll em and load em.
     
  13. J T Patriot

    J T Patriot New Member

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    I bet chamfering solves the problem. I prefer BT bullets because of this problem as well.
     
  14. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    I had a problem with this happening when loading Barnes TSX bullets.

    More chamfer, more expander-problem solved.
     
  15. WyrTwister

    WyrTwister New Member

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    I am experimenting with cast GC bullets in .223 .

    I got spoiled loading FMJBT bullets , had to go back to doing a lot more case prep for the cast bullets . Including champhering (sp) the mouth of the brass .

    I too , bet that helps the problem .

    God bless
    Wyr
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2010
  16. W. C. Quantrill

    W. C. Quantrill New Member

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    I also have a 550, and it is very simple to drop the expander a smidgeon and bell up that case just a wee bit also. Its a simple matter of adjustiing your dies.
     
  17. Gunny65

    Gunny65 New Member

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    Well, I dropped the expander a tad, used a bit of lube, chamfered and had good results. I also tried some projo's covered with moly. They were nice and smooth, no rolling. The regular copper jacket projo's did much better too. Thanks for the input guys. Great help here.

    I like BT projo's better also but they are more expensive and right now I am loading for mass fun at the range. Cheaper is better when only shooting with friends and family for fun. Hunting and serious target practice get BT's.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2011