.223 ammo

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by Big19Ben, Apr 7, 2012.

  1. Big19Ben

    Big19Ben New Member

    13
    0
    0
    Is there a difference between .223 rounds for bolt action or semi auto rifles. ie cartridge dimensions
     
  2. Retaks

    Retaks New Member

    126
    0
    0
    Nope. 223 is 223 wether its for a Remington 700, AR-15, or a Remington 760. The only difference could be overall length when using heavier bullets.
     

  3. HockaLouis

    HockaLouis New Member

    3,617
    0
    0
    Loaded Question!!!

    Technically true, but, maybe not totally acurate: see .223 vs 5.56. Yeah, there's very possibly a difference. "Know your gun and its ammunition."
     
  4. Retaks

    Retaks New Member

    126
    0
    0
    Yes there is a difference in 5.56 and 223 but he only asked about 223 so i assumed that all he was talking about.
     
  5. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

    3,495
    0
    0
    This is what I’ve learned (in the event you didn't know these things):

    The bullet 'weight' (length really) matching the barrel twist rate is an important factor for accuracy. Even though the exterior cartridge dimensions are almost the same, heavy bullets (69 gr.) go in high twist rate barrels (1:8"), light bullets (55 gr.) go it slow twist rate (1:12") barrels.

    Oh, and while they look almost exactly alike, even though you can fire a .223 round in a 5.56 semi auto, firing a ‘higher pressure’ 5.56 round in a .223 rifle fatigues the chamber and one shouldn’t do it.

    But that's not what you asked.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2012
  6. HockaLouis

    HockaLouis New Member

    3,617
    0
    0
    Vin;
    Copy that to repost in a week. Perhaps you could write one in reverse for .308 vs. and 7.62 x 51.
     
  7. cakesterkiller

    cakesterkiller New Member

    257
    0
    0
    can anybody actually tell me the difference between .223 and 5.56?

    the only things I've seen are minor and irrelevant cause I've shot em both out of a bolt action chamber in .223 and an AR chambered in 5.56

    and I have a tough time thinking that the pressure is that big of an issue cause I load my own and the loads are the exact same for both... the only difference I've seen is how far ya seat the bullet and is a difference of a few hundredths of an inch
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2012
  8. hmh

    hmh New Member

    962
    0
    0
    The pressure for 5.56 is higher than that of a .223. Also I think the neck taper is slightly different. But the issue is the pressure.
     
  9. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

    9,676
    385
    83
    The 5.56x45 is loaded to a higher pressure than the 223 but that is in itself a big deal. A good quality bolt is proofed beyond that. The leade of the 223 chamber is shorter than the leade of the 5.56X45 chamber and that can be a big deal. The difference in the leade (distance the bullet travels before engaging the rifling) can cause an already over pressure load to go radically over pressure. Possibly 30k over under the wrong circumstances. Say a long heavy bullet seated into the rifling. This is where the danger lies. 223 hand loading data is for the 223 pressures. Max loads would still be under the pressure levels of the 5.56x45.
     
  10. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

    3,495
    0
    0
    I think I saw a SMALL difference in the radius angles of the neck when looking at the specs on the cartridge blue prints giving the 5.56 a longer throat. I think JTJ’s right. The bigger difference is in the rifle’s firing chamber, not the cartridge. RRA uses something called a ‘Wylde Chamber’ design which allows both to be shot without difference. I had been looking for a bolt action with a ‘Wylde Chamber’ to allow one to shoot either .223 or 5.56, but there doesn’t seem to be any.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2012
  11. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

    9,676
    385
    83
    Mossberg MVP. Chambered for the 5.56X45 and uses AR mags. I am looking very hard at getting one. I believe the CZ 527 Varmint is also chambered to take the 5.56. Remington makes a couple of rifles in the SPS series but they might not be bolts.
     
  12. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

    3,495
    0
    0
    When I was researching this a while ago, the Mossberg MVP was stuck in the pipeline. Only a few had escaped for reviews, which were mixed. I think I'd love to be able to shoot either .223 or Lake City. Is the MVP actually on the shelves now? Let us know how it shoots if you get one.

    There’s aren’t any 5.56 bolts on either the CZ or Remington sites that I could find.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2012
  13. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

    644
    0
    0
    even though there is a slight "technical" difference between 5.56 mm and 223, no noticeable performance or danger to the shooter nor the rifle will or ever has been happenened by interchanging them.
     
  14. HockaLouis

    HockaLouis New Member

    3,617
    0
    0
    Um, wouldn't you just buy one in 5.56, presuming you find one?
     
  15. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

    9,676
    385
    83
    Local lgs has an mvp with a 24" barrel. Nice looking gun. He is a little high on it though. I think I saw a couple available on line.
     
  16. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

    3,495
    0
    0
    Perhaps they're not rare now. They were a year or so ago.
     
  17. billt

    billt New Member

    1,642
    0
    0
    The external case dimensions are identical. The only difference is in case thickness and in the freebore of the chamber itself.

    5.56 MM

    [​IMG]

    .223

    [​IMG]
     
  18. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

    4,799
    2
    0
    I will say this My bolt action savage does not not do well with steel cased .223 ammo . It will shoot it fine but it expands and will not eject out of the bore without tapping on the bolt handle to get it out . it expands and does not contract like brass ammo ,
    I dont shoot it thru it but I wanted to try it and se if it would work or not , the bore is just a little to tight for it
     
  19. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

    3,495
    0
    0
    Also from http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/

    >There ARE differences between the .223 Remington as shot in civilian rifles and the 5.56×45 in military use. While the external cartridge dimensions are essentially the same, the .223 Remington is built to SAAMI specs, rated to 50,000 CUP max pressure, and normally has a shorter throat. The 5.56×45 is built to NATO specs, rated to 60,000 CUP max pressure, and has a longer throat, optimized to shoot long bullets.<

    If look carefully at the shoulders you’ll see every so slight different specs for r1 and r2.
     
  20. billt

    billt New Member

    1,642
    0
    0
    The problem with all of this is you can find .223 handloads to 62,000 in a lot of older manuals, and similar 5.56 MM loads that barely top out at 55,000.