[Tony Soprano]

.22 LR pistols are small, easily concealed, have a speed of 900 to 1300 fps, more then any .45, are easy to aim, have quick target aquisition, a quick and accuate grip, and are perfect for self defense. 3 to 5 rounds of .22 LR in the chest of any attacker will ruin an attack. In self defense one must teach confidence, peace of mind, ways to carry and conceal, grip, target acquistion, and so on. Take a poll. How many cops nationwide carry a 45 or 9 off duty? many, perhaps even most grab a .22, .380. .38 and stuff in in the waist band or pocket.

 

[allmons]

Totally agree

I have never felt "under gunned" with a .22. In fact, I prefer a .22 to a .25 ANY day. Small, concealable and deadly. The ammunition is very affordable so that extensive practice makes sense. It's an old statement, but still very true - better a hit with a .22 than a miss with a .45.

For a very few people, recoil "flinch" is a real problem. The .22 resolves that problem as well.

 

[cnorman18]

I agree that a .22 is better than a rock or a sharp stick; but there are some drawbacks, besides the obvious stopping power problem. .22s are more susceptible to moisture and other damage; they have more frequent misfires than any centerfire round, and in autos have more frequent jams (and what would be the point of carrying a .22 revolver? .38s are no bigger).

The main advantage of a .25 over a .22 is feeding reliability, and that's why they're still selling. They can also be made much smaller; in pre-CCW days here in Texas, I often carried a Baby Browning knockoff, and had no fear of being caught with it. Did I feel underarmed? Hell, yes; but I wasn't UNarmed, and that counts for a lot.

.22s are wonderful guns; they're great fun, cheap to shoot, make less noise and generate less recoil than any other gun. For practice and recreational shooting, they're hard to beat. But for defense, in my opinion, a .380 loaded with Cor-Bon hollowpoints is a minimum.

If you want to use a .22 for defense, go for it; but buy a quality gun, shoot it till you know it'll work every single time, and stuff it with clean, new, high-quality, high velocity ammunition. Solid points are better than hollowpoints in a .22; you need penetration, not expansion.

And practice till you can hit where it counts every time. Of course, that's good advice with any gun.

 

[allmons]

Can't argue with any of that, Cnorman!

Agree with most of it - still can't like a .25. I've dug too many of the bullets out from under the skin or scalp with little damage to the victim. But I confess that I, too, occasionally carried a baby browning clone. And you are completely correct - any weapon is better than none!

 

[Pounce]

I agree that a .22 is better than a rock or a sharp stick; but there are some drawbacks, besides the obvious stopping power problem. .22s are more susceptible to moisture and other damage; they have more frequent misfires than any centerfire round, and in autos have more frequent jams (and what would be the point of carrying a .22 revolver? .38s are no bigger).

The main advantage of a .25 over a .22 is feeding reliability, and that's why they're still selling. They can also be made much smaller; in pre-CCW days here in Texas, I often carried a Baby Browning knockoff, and had no fear of being caught with it. Did I feel underarmed? Hell, yes; but I wasn't UNarmed, and that counts for a lot.

.22s are wonderful guns; they're great fun, cheap to shoot, make less noise and generate less recoil than any other gun. For practice and recreational shooting, they're hard to beat. But for defense, in my opinion, a .380 loaded with Cor-Bon hollowpoints is a minimum.

If you want to use a .22 for defense, go for it; but buy a quality gun, shoot it till you know it'll work every single time, and stuff it with clean, new, high-quality, high velocity ammunition. Solid points are better than hollowpoints in a .22; you need penetration, not expansion.

And practice till you can hit where it counts every time. Of course, that's good advice with any gun.

I'm in total agreement with the above.

 

[robocop10mm]

.22

The priming compound in a rimfire is prone to damage from drying out and vibration/shock. That is the cause for most rimfire misfires. I do not feel adequately armed with anything less than a .380. I have 2 .22's and a .32 ACP but would not consider carrying one for defense.

 

[pioneer461]

.22 LR handguns misunderstood???

Yo Tony. A twenty-two may be good for a close-up hit in a skull, but to stop a charging 220 pound attacker doped up on speed, fuggetaboutit.

I was a cop for about 30 years and still on the job now in a different roll, but I've NEVER known a cop who carried a .22 LR as backup, or off duty. I knew a guy who carried a .32 once, but as a general rule you won't find a copper carrying anything less than a .380.

In San Diego, in the early 70's, a few county mounties and city cops (me included) carried High Standard .22 magnum derringers as back-up, but that's as close as it came to a .22 LR. Don't know of any who actually used them.

 

[Tony Soprano]

Yo Tony. A twenty-two may be good for a close-up hit in a skull, but to stop a charging 220 pound attacker doped up on speed, fuggetaboutit.

I was a cop for about 30 years and still on the job now in a different roll, but I've NEVER known a cop who carried a .22 LR as backup, or off duty. I knew a guy who carried a .32 once, but as a general rule you won't find a copper carrying anything less than a .380.

In San Diego, in the early 70's, a few county mounties and city cops (me included) carried High Standard .22 magnum derringers as back-up, but that's as close as it came to a .22 LR. Don't know of any who actually used them.

I appreciate your service to our country and to your community,I'm not talking about knock down force,I'm just stating .22LR are misunderstood handguns,I have a friend that is a cop in my hometown for over 16 years,he said that over 50% of all murders in our area is from a single shot .22 round,he also told me stories of him unloading his Glock into an attacker's chest and the drugged up crazy idiot falling at his feet,I've heard plenty of them stories too.He carries a .32 as his backup,remember I'm just saying they are misunderstood

 

[pioneer461]

You are right. They certainly are misunderstood. Keep in mind however, while they may account for many deaths (not over 50% in my experience, but I'll take your friend's word for it) any caliber gun will cause someone to eventually bleed out.

I'm a big fan of .22LR and shoot them often. I have a 10/22 that I have invested way too much money on , a SigArms Mosquito pistol, a Marlin model 60, and an antique Iver Johnson 8 shot revolver. Now with ammo prices skyrocketing, I shoot more .22 lately than the other calibers. They can be accurate target, survival and hunting arms, as well as tactical uses. The SWAT team at my alma mater PD has a 10/22 they use for taking out street lights, etc. From what I understand, the Mafia used to use .22's a lot for hits, but they had to be up close and personal. Twenty-twos are easy to hide, easy to silence, and the bullets deform easily making them difficult to match. I just completed reading a novel about two US Army snipers in Romania, using a 10/22 as a sniping tool to kill terrorists and the author made a pretty convincing case for it.

When I was a firearms instructor in the military, we worked with a classified Marine Corps unit, to develop a suppressed, full auto .22 cal pistol for covert operations. (I don't know if it was finally adopted. It was classified and I did not have a need to know.)

Not to mention the historical significance of the humble .22:

"In 1856 Smith & Wesson formed their second partnership to produce a small revolver designed to fire the Rimfire cartridge they patented in August of 1854. This revolver was the first successful fully self-contained cartridge revolver available in the world." The .22.

 

[Doc]

I have never felt "under gunned" with a .22. In fact, I prefer a .22 to a .25 ANY day. Small, concealable and deadly. The ammunition is very affordable so that extensive practice makes sense. It's an old statement, but still very true - better a hit with a .22 than a miss with a .45.

For a very few people, recoil "flinch" is a real problem. The .22 resolves that problem as well.

Having been shot with a 22, I suggest you try something a bit bigger.

Doc

 

[Catfish]

You can kill a person with a .22 and not stop them. I`ll stick to my .44 mag. I don`t believe in takeing a knife to a gun fight.

 

[stalkingbear]

.22s

While I agree with them perhaps being somewhat misunderstood,there's NO WAY I consider them "perfect for defense"!! The bigger diameter the bullet has with other factors included,the better punch and knockdown it has. Look at the proven .45acp-my wife,youngest daughter,and granddaughters all shoot my .45s and never complain about recoil. You need to read evan marshall's statistics on actual shootouts as per 1 shot stops. I don't even consider .380 good backup. Try shooting a .380 into a gallon milkjug filled with water. Just as in cars with all other being equal-there's no substitute for cubic inches,there's no substitute for bullet size-this while placement and bullet design are factors. There's a HUGE difference between arguing about guns/calibers,and actually being in combat with said gun while being shot at.
I can tell you this much-in actual combat,NO gun feels like enough and anybody that says they ain't ever scared pooless is a liar!

 

[HadEmAll]

I agree that a .22 is better than a rock or a sharp stick; but there are some drawbacks, besides the obvious stopping power problem. .22s are more susceptible to moisture and other damage; they have more frequent misfires than any centerfire round, and in autos have more frequent jams (and what would be the point of carrying a .22 revolver? .38s are no bigger).

The main advantage of a .25 over a .22 is feeding reliability, and that's why they're still selling. They can also be made much smaller; in pre-CCW days here in Texas, I often carried a Baby Browning knockoff, and had no fear of being caught with it. Did I feel underarmed? Hell, yes; but I wasn't UNarmed, and that counts for a lot.

.22s are wonderful guns; they're great fun, cheap to shoot, make less noise and generate less recoil than any other gun. For practice and recreational shooting, they're hard to beat. But for defense, in my opinion, a .380 loaded with Cor-Bon hollowpoints is a minimum.

If you want to use a .22 for defense, go for it; but buy a quality gun, shoot it till you know it'll work every single time, and stuff it with clean, new, high-quality, high velocity ammunition. Solid points are better than hollowpoints in a .22; you need penetration, not expansion.

And practice till you can hit where it counts every time. Of course, that's good advice with any gun.

Extremely well said. I would only add that you should also practice clearing dud rounds from the gun and getting a fresh round chambered.

Have you ever wandered the firing line at a range after a .22 match? I've never failed to find unfired rounds laying on the ground that have a firing pin dent in the rim, but didn't combust.

 

[hideit]

unfired 22 shell!
i would love to have the statistics on which brands they were
then which 22 design

I've never had CCI not fire

 

[HadEmAll]

In my Buckmark and Beretta 21 (since departed) I had the most duds with Remington Golden bullets, fewer but still some with both Winchester SuperX and Federal Classic.

I agree that I've had no failures I can remember with CCI, either MiniMags, or the standard velocity. All 40 grain non-hollow point.

I've recently been shooting Federal Automatch from Wal-mart, and have had no failures.

I thought the Beretta 21 in .22 would be a great second or pocket gun, but those click-no bangs put that idea out of my head real quick.

 

[frankhaley1940]

.22 misunderstood

Well, a policeman friend of mine in Houston tells me that more people are killed by the .22 round than any over caliber, in fact, his off duty carry, as a .22 on a neck chain around his neck in front. I like to carry the No. Am. Arms mini .22, it is so easy to conceal, and with 5 rounds, I think we have to remember that the chances of having to pull your weapon are rather slim, I understand that if you need the protection, there is always the chance or need to a bigger caliber, but the way I carry my piece is in a "Mike's Sidekick" belt/fanny pack. It has a velcro concealed compartment, I can carry my wallet, camera, and other stuff, very concealed, I've noticed when I carry my 9mm Makarov or my P-38 then I have to always be aware of my coat or jacket to keep covered, don't want to stress out the little old ladies, I really like the "sidekick" pouch, it completely conceals the gun, but it's easy to get to, unzip the top, pull the tap, and reach in the side pocket for the little revolver. I load the first 2 rounds with bird shot, the last 3 are hollow point, and I carry a small pouch of extra rounds next to the little shooter. Anyway, take care, and keep your powder dry. Frank

 

[matt g]

.22 LR pistols are small, easily concealed, have a speed of 900 to 1300 fps, more then any .45

I'd rather be hit by a motorcycle doing 80 than a big rig doing 50. The 230 gr. .45 ACP that travels at 700 fps is going to do a lot more damage than a 40 gr. .22 that travels at 1000 fps.

Newton's Second Law states that force equals mass multiplied by acceleration. In a life threatening situation, are you going to trust a minute amount of force to save your life or do you want the peace of mind to know that if attacked, you will, with one shot, neutralize a threat?

Any quality handgun is easily wielded, therefore, one should carry the maximum firepower that they're able to control and they should train with it until they're competent.

 

[fredzilla]

intimidation factor

As my CCW I carry a Model 29 Smith & Wesson (SEE PIC). Stopping power and intimidation factor all rolled in to one.

 

[billdeserthills]

Agree with most of it - still can't like a .25. I've dug too many of the bullets out from under the skin or scalp with little damage to the victim. But I confess that I, too, occasionally carried a baby browning clone. And you are completely correct - any weapon is better than none!

Say ever seen how Glaser Ammo performs in a .25??

 

[billdeserthills]

While I agree with them perhaps being somewhat misunderstood,there's NO WAY I consider them "perfect for defense"!! The bigger diameter the bullet has with other factors included,the better punch and knockdown it has. Look at the proven .45acp-my wife,youngest daughter,and granddaughters all shoot my .45s and never complain about recoil. You need to read evan marshall's statistics on actual shootouts as per 1 shot stops. I don't even consider .380 good backup. Try shooting a .380 into a gallon milkjug filled with water. Just as in cars with all other being equal-there's no substitute for cubic inches,there's no substitute for bullet size-this while placement and bullet design are factors. There's a HUGE difference between arguing about guns/calibers,and actually being in combat with said gun while being shot at.
I can tell you this much-in actual combat,NO gun feels like enough and anybody that says they ain't ever scared pooless is a liar!

I certainly agree with you on this one, same reason why my backup gun is a Kimber Ultra Ten II!