1st Detonics MTX 1911 produced + the prototype: PHOTOS/reveiw

Discussion in '1911 Forum' started by melensdad, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. melensdad

    melensdad New Member

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    I've been a total slacker lately, announcing the new Detonics compact pistol, talking about it, but not posting much. Blame my daughter and her high school fencing team (I'm on the coaching staff/weapons repair) and the gun came off the production line right as the competition season started. So I've been really busy!!!

    So first up is the first gun off the production line. As a favor to me, my initials are part of the serial number, and they threw in a special presentation case because this is the very first gun. This one is going into one of the gun safes and will not be fired. Other than the test shots the factory ran through the gun, this one is/will remain, a virgin safe queen.

    It is a double stack aluminum framed, modular, 1911. The compact grips hold 12 rounds of 45acp. The trigger has ZERO over travel and only about 1/8" of an inch of take up before it snaps. The grip is angled a bit more than a traditional 1911 and has a cutout at the rear for the web of your hand and is relieved under the trigger to allow for a higher grip. The combination should push the recoil down the arm and reduce muzzle flip compared to a traditional 1911. The slide is traditional 1911 design, as is the trigger, hammer, linkage, etc. Its a 1911 but the frame/grip are modernized to allow for a better grip on the gun and the double stack magazine.

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  2. melensdad

    melensdad New Member

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    Here is the prototype gun that was used to develop this model. Its engraved with the NEMESIS designation instead of the MTX designation because during the prototype phase that was what they were going to call this gun. As part of the serial number, my initials and 001 have been incorporated into the number. This gun was produced in June of this year and has probably had 20,000 rounds or more run through it at the factory. I have not YET shot this gun, this one will be used by me, since its already been shot, its not like I am going to lower the value by using a used gun.

    You may notice in the photos the magazine release is very tall, at first I thought it odd, but it feels really good, I'm not sure if it will snag up in a holster, that is yet to be determined. I don't have a holster that will fit this gun (yet) because none of my 1911 holsters are set up for accessory rails.

    The gun is very light, not sure the exact weight, but I'd bet in the 25 to 26 ounce range.

    The grip is AMAZING in your hand. The guys at the FFL loved it, the guys in the cigar lounge love it. I love it. Its a bit odd looking but put it in your hand and you'll understand why it looks the way it looks!

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  3. melensdad

    melensdad New Member

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    More of the prototype pistol:

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  4. Olympus

    Olympus New Member

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    That's definitely interesting. Not really my style though. Thanks for the photos and the write-up!
     
  5. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    very pretty gun. not my style little too wide for ccw for my tastes. i think your gonna have problems with inadvertant mag ejections with that enormous mag release button.
     
  6. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    Whats the price gonna be on it?
     
  7. HOSSFLY

    HOSSFLY New Member

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    Does it really protrude - like a half inch- or just look like it in the pics :confused:
    I like the looks overall but mabe again the pics but grip area looks FAT---
     
  8. melensdad

    melensdad New Member

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    To address questions from both PMs and here in the thread.

    The MSRP on these guns is $1500. That puts it in the price range of the Kimbers, etc but well below Baer, Wilson, etc.

    The "all black" gun is actually 2 tone dark grey frame under a semi-gloss black slide. The gun that is the prototype gun is a light grey frame under semi-gloss black slide.

    Buying these guns is a simple matter of contacting the company and ordering one, they will ship it to your FFL. You can specify if you want the light or dark frame with the black slide.

    You can contact them via their website => Detonics Defense Technologies: Enhancing Combat Precision
    Detonics Defense
    609 S. Breese
    Millstadt, IL 62260
    Phone: 1-618-476-3200
    Fax: 1-(618)-476-3221

    They don't even have these guns shown/listed for sale on their website yet so you have to ask!!! Best bet is to call them.

    When I talked to Bruce Siddel, president of Detonics, he said that the mag release is intentionally tall, that it was tested by all sorts of operators (police, various government agents, competition shooters) and they overwhelmingly wanted the release to be tall enough to quickly engage in a stress situation. He also said that they've not had any holster issues with the release snagging, disengaging, etc in their testing. I'm sure that some will criticize the mag release, some will like it, some will live with it, etc. But no, it does not protrude a half-inch, but yes it is tall.

    It looks wider than it is. In fact it is the SAME WIDTH as a regular 1911. Seriously, no wider than that which was born from the mind of John M Browning!
     
  9. Olympus

    Olympus New Member

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    You don't mean it's the same thickness as a standard 1911, do you?
     
  10. melensdad

    melensdad New Member

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    Yes, that is what I mean. The grip of this new DETONICS MTX is no fatter, and actually ever so slightly thinner, in width, than the grip of a single stack 1911.

    They were apparently able to do that by using advanced CNC machining and this gun's grip is machined inside and out on a machine that allows for complex curves.

    For those concerned about the grip size, here is some information and comparison that I can release. The new Detonics pistols is designated the MTX, the traditional Detonics is designated the CM.

    The grip, by the way, holds 12 rounds of 45acp and is 5/8" longer than the original CombatMaster grip. That makes this grip just about "Officer" size instead of the shortened CombatMaster size which left your little finger grasping for air.

    You can see the new gun's grip is actually going to be similar to, or smaller, in most ways that the Glock 26, a traditional 1911 or a Sig 250. Bear in mind we are comparing a 45acp Double-Stack with 2 popular 9mm Double Stacks and a traditional Single Stack.

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    Hopefully this will help clear up some things.
     
  11. Olympus

    Olympus New Member

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    I just can't see how a double stack grip can be thinner than a single stack. I'd love to see a photo of a caliper comparison between the two.
     
  12. melensdad

    melensdad New Member

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    Its actually pretty simple, the wood grips on a single stack 1911 are fairly thick, but because the grip is milled into the metal of this gun, there is no additional thickness of the wood slabs, so the thin walls of the metal grip, and the ability to use the machining to contour all angles of the grip, allow for excellent ergonomics.
     
  13. Olympus

    Olympus New Member

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    Oh, I see where you're getting the measurements now. I was thinking a bare frame comparison of the two. In which case, my 1911s measure 0.755" thick on the frame. But adding standard thickness grips increase the thickness like you said. That's why I like slim grips!
     
  14. melensdad

    melensdad New Member

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    I'm a fat grip guy myself, but . . .

    As for the grip 'feel' it is better than any of the double stack guns I've ever tried with the possible exception of the CZ 75 grips, and that is my favorite double stack of all time (or it was until now?). This new grip does not feel large, but it does fill your hand, of the people who've tried it, none has said that the grip was too large for their hand. I think the secret is the way they were able to use the CNC machines to radius everything on the grip, add the relief under the trigger guard, and make the cut out for the web of your hand to come up high under the beavertail. All those things add up to a very well shaped grip.

    I am curious, however, too see how the grip feels in a wet hand. The triangular cuts are fairly gripping to a dry hand, but it will be interesting to see how it shoots with a wet hand.
     
  15. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Interesting!

    Do you have any pics showing it beside similarly-sized 1911's and maybe some other firearms. It is hard to really judge size without something known to compare to.
     
  16. melensdad

    melensdad New Member

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    Just so happens that I snapped some of those photos too.

    TOP LEFT + BOTTOM LEFT = Detonics DTX
    MIDDLE LEFT = Detonics CombatMaster
    TOP RIGHT = Para Warthog sub-compact
    MIDDLE RIGHT = CZ 75 P-01 compact
    LOWER RIGHT = Safari Arms Enforcer (Colt Officer size)
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    Detonics MTX compact vs Safari Arms Enforcer (Colt Officer Model size)
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    Detonics MTX 12 shot compact vs Para Warthog (10 shot)
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    Detonics MTX 12 shot compact vs Detonics CombatMaster (6 shot)
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  17. HOSSFLY

    HOSSFLY New Member

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    Hate to beat the horse but i'd love to see a pic of it beside a 1911 with the backs (1911 MSH) toward the camers- Having a hard time wraping the thickness thing around my brain :confused:
     
  18. Olympus

    Olympus New Member

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    I was too Hoss. I had to get the caliper out after mine. What the OP is saying is that the Detonics with grips is slightly thinner than a 1911 with standard thickness grips. Without seeing a picture of the Detonix, I can at least say that the image of the table the OP posted with the grip thicknesses is accurate for the standard 1911 with regular thickness grips. I can see how it would be possible have grips molded so that they are inletted into the frame of the Detonix rather than sitting flat against the frame like the standard 1911.
     
  19. HOSSFLY

    HOSSFLY New Member

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    Makes sense- Now back to that mag release :eek::p
     
  20. melensdad

    melensdad New Member

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    I should probably pull the guns back out of the safe and take more measurements when I get some time. Realize that there are many different places to measure this grip, and the fact that it is relieved for the web of your hand makes for a shorter pull length, that the width measurement is not taken at the very bottom where but rather near the midpoint area and also that the cut under the trigger guard also makes for a more comfortable grip for those with smaller hands. The bottom of the grip, is fairly large, but very little of your hand actually wraps around the bottom of the grip, it wraps around the area directly behind the trigger, and that is where the grip is relieved. Hopefully this makes some sense?



    I'm a big fan of fancy grips and honestly if they could have shaved in a shallow recess where they have the triangular grip pattern I'd be willing to glue in a fancy wood veneer (not too different that the competition guys who use skateboard tape on their grips but good looking). But hey, that is just me, I like wood. :)



    I'll admit that I'm not sold on it. I don't have a holster that accepts a gun with an accessory rail so I had not yet tried to carry this gun. Its on the wish list from Santa. As I wrote earlier, it was tested by all sorts of guys in the pre-production phase and they overwhelmingly endorsed it. But they were not coming from the concealed carry perspective, which is my primary use for compact pistols. I've introduced and help train some guys in IDPA but I don't compete in any shooting sports anymore, I can see its advantages for police, various government types and competitors, but not necessarily for me. Time and testing will tell the story.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011