1911, not for everybody

Discussion in '1911 Forum' started by NGIB, Sep 16, 2009.

  1. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    I'm a huge 1911 fan, I have 5 of them and I shoot them more than anything else I have. A few minutes ago, I posted that it's not a good first gun - why?

    Here's my take on the 1911. Yes, you can buy one that runs great right out of the box - but not all of them do. They're big and heavy. They're picky with magazines. They're all steel (sure some have alloy frames) and can rust. Many require subtle tweaks to make them really reliable. The bottom line is they are a tinkerer's gun. If you have patience and can put up with occasional frustration, they are IMO the finest platform ever built.

    If you want a boringly reliable, never have to take it apart, never have to clean it, never care if it's lubed properly kind of gun - get a Glock - you'll be happier.

    And no, I don't have a Glock. They are great guns - but they have no soul or personality...
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2009
  2. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    I definitely shoot more consistently and mo' bettah' with a 1911 than any other handgun. That said, there are other handguns out there that are probably better suited for a neophyte handgunner than a 1911.

    But, there is nothing like a good 1911.

    I have to put a disclaimer here: A 1911 was my second handgun. ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2009

  3. feedsasquatch

    feedsasquatch New Member

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    NGIB, I think I might have to agree with you on this one. The 1911 is my second pistol, and the Glock 23 was my first (should have done 9mm, not .40 S&W though). I'm glad I purchased a weapon that was simple, easy to clean, easy to disassemble, and very reliable out of the box. I haven't tweaked a thing on it. All I've added is a Surefire X300 tactical rail-light.

    That being said, now that I've "warmed-up" to pistols, I think I ready for the 1911. It requires a bunch of research to find the proper parts and accessories, but its worth it. I purchased the Glock because I HAD to have a home-defense gun. I purchased the 1911 because I believe it the best platform available for self-defense, and best looking to...

    Hopefully I can get to the range this week and should my new Colt Combat Comander:D
     
  4. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    I did not intend this post to scare anyone away from a 1911, my goal is to make sure folks understand a 1911 isn't a "no involvement" type of gun. When you have one tuned properly, and some are out of the box, it's the sweetest shooting pistol on the planet. The reason the Ed Browns, Les Baers, Wilsons, and Nighthawks cost so much is that these guns are built, fitted, finished, and tuned by experts to make them perfect.

    An example of what I'm trying to say is the barrel busing fit on a production gun is usually just adequate. To properly fit a match bushing isn't expensive, as the bushing itself is 10 bucks or so, but it requires slow careful fitting - the same for most 1911 upgrades. You pay for that up front in the custom shop guns, but doing it yourself is very satisfying.

    I took my Norinco to the range last night after installing the drop-in beavertail and the new hammer & sear (and springs) and it shot very well with no problems. I accomplished my goal of making it feel better in my hand as the new beavertail allows me to have a higher grip which lowers the bore axis. The next upgrade for this one will be a match bushing and I already bought it and I'm just waiting for some "lazy" time to begin fitting it.

    I expect to spend all day Saturday getting the bushing fit just right as it takes time and patience to properly hand fit a part. As you get it close you are literally making one stroke with the abrasive and then checking the fit. The end result will be a more mechanically accurate 1911 - and a very enjoyable Saturday for me as I love this type of project...
     
  5. General_lee

    General_lee New Member

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    I'm not worried about my 1911... my boss is a gunsmith:D
     
  6. mr1911

    mr1911 New Member

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    I read an artical by Larry Vickers who says something similar, he said the 1911 is an enthusiasts gun and you better be skilled enough to be your own 'smith at times.

    Another artical I remember was by Ken Hackathorn where he said if you treat your 1911 like your lawn mower get a Glock.

    I would have to agree after reading some of the rediculas whining I have seen posted by certian members in the 1911 section, some people just need to stick to their XD's and Glocks.
     
  7. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    You like to jump in these threads and drop names and hint at your vast knowledge and experience with the platform - why not help folks?

    Unless you are John Moses Browning reincarnated, you had to start somewhere yourself - and I bet you asked questions and got helpful answers. BTW, I suggest using Firefox as it has a built-in spellchecker. Your posts of superiority would carry more weight without the 4 misspelled words like this one...
     
  8. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Some of US are born knowing it all the rest of you have to work at it.
     
  9. hogger129

    hogger129 New Member

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    If there is one thing I have learned so far it's to get what you like otherwise you will always be shooting someone else's gun.

    There are some that, like you said, are built to perform perfectly. Still, there is no one gun that is best suited to everybody.

    I prefer Colt's 1911 because it's US made and it's the original, but what exactly is different with these other models? Could someone explain what they do they do to them to make them perform so well? I don't know a whole lot about guns at this point. As you see, I joined in July so I am pretty new to the scene. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  10. masterPsmith

    masterPsmith New Member

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    As far as a semi auto, the 1911 platform, in my opinion, is the best ever devised (thank you John Browning). In my years as a gunsmith, I have built my fair share of custom guns based on the 1911. Most of these were back in the 70's and early 80's when the race gun craze was going full tilt. I shot a lot of competition back in those days and did very well with the 1911 platform.

    I, still to this day, prefer to carry my P-14 over anything else. A newbe with a 1911 needs to practice every chance he/she can to become proficient with it. They also need to learn the mechanical ins and outs or have it maintained my a good 1911 smith. Properly set-up and maintained, it will never let you down................

    Jim............................
     
  11. SGT-MILLER

    SGT-MILLER New Member

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    I agree with the statement that no gun is for everybody. However, I believe that the 1911 is a great beginner's firearm. They point naturally, the manual of arms for 1911s are natural and instinctive, and they have serviceable accuracy right out of the box, which negates any need for the newcomer to tinker with the firearm.

    Most good quality 1911s are good, reliable shooters right out of the box. Some have their issues, but most do not. Usually, the newcomer isn't worried about match grade accuracy, so needing to fiddle with the slide/barrels is not needed.

    Most good 1911s just need basic cleaning and maintanence in order to function well. It depends on the brand.

    I think a new shooter would do well to check out the 1911 platform.

    To each their own in the end.
     
  12. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    I think quoting the comments of Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn is fine. They both know there way around 1911's as well as anyone. Knowing and using the names of skilled, respected and experienced operators is not "name dropping", and it helps give those who may not know their names a couple of additional options for Googling to gain further info.

    The original criteria for reliability for the 1911 was impressive, and was easily met in trials. But back then the attention to detail was extreme, and the pride of the makers was paramount. A 1915 manufactured, box stock commercial 1911 represented more hours of hand labor and attention to detail than the most expensive custom 1911 does today. They also did not need to turn out a bazillion pistols, and they were all made the same. No such thing as "extended this, flared that, bobbed whatever" back in the day. Today, there are many companies churning out 1911's at amazing rates, many more making parts, and parts tolerances can vary immensely. That is why so much fitting can be required for aftermarket parts.

    If you enjoy tinkering, try a 1911. They are world class pistols. And most quality 1911's can be made to run perfectly by cleaning up the throat and ramp, tuning the extractor and making sure the plunger tube is permanently affixed. The rest falls into the "tinkering" category.

    If you just want a no nonsense tool for defensive purposes, get a Glock.
     
  13. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    If someone is bound and determined to go with a Glock, they should at least go with the Ninja Model.
     
  14. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    But the Ninja Glock takes all the fun and skill out of shooting. And why shoot at all if you can cut your enemies down with the laser? Boring.

    Haha.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  15. nikotromus11

    nikotromus11 New Member

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    Very good thread.

    The 1911 sounds like a pain in the butt to own. That coupled with the extreemly high price makes turns me off to it.

    It is sexy looking though. The glocks are asthetically offensive in my eyes. Thats by far the biggest turn off from a glock point of view. I'm trying to figure out what to buy, and it is extreemly difficult to choose the right gun.
     
  16. mr1911

    mr1911 New Member

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    WOW,............

    You've definitely got something stuck in your craw,....maybe it's because I had the gaal to say don't like Norincos in the past.

    1st; If you noticed I said, "I would have to agree" with your O.P., so it's rediculas for you to come out swinging at me when I was supporting your statements.

    2nd; The forum does have a spell check, didn't feel the need for it at the time, I promise I'll try to do a better job in the future, I'm sure you'll find a few in this post too. Thanks for going to the trouble to point them out, I'm sure you feel a lot better now.

    3rd; "You like to jump in these threads and drop names and hint at your vast knowledge and experience with the platform".
    O.K.,.... please excuse me, for quoting a couple of ARTICALS from a MAGAZINE to support YOUR statements,....didn't know that was dropping names and tooting my own horn.

    4th; No, I never had ANY help from anyone as a newbie to 1911s, I built my first two 1911s myself without help or advice from anyone, I didn't go on internet forums bitching about why they are junk becuase I was too ignorant to understand how they worked properly, I spent lots of time understanding the gun and didn't start blaming IT for MY shortcommings.

    I would re-think sniping at someone personaly who was agreeing with your original statements just because of a petty grudge or offense taken in the past.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  17. Viking

    Viking Active Member

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    Please no flaming, better to stick together as gun ownership needs all the support we can give. If mistakes are made about guns that does absolutely need addressing but to burn someone on spelling, that's a bit edgy. PS I don't have the ieSpell downloaded but I have seen other forums that a spellcheck down where the Submit Reply and Post Preview buttons are that worked without any download.
     
  18. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    HUH WHAT 1911 pain in the butt? If you mean pain in the butt as in I put what ever I want in my 1911 and it shoots it no matter what. Never had a single FTF, FTE, stove pipe, nothing but brass flying out the side and bullet flying out the front. Extreamly high price? If by high price you mean a $800 pistol that will out shoot all other pistols that try to out shoot it. I paid $700 out the door for my Kimber Custom II in CA when I bought it. I could have gotten it cheaper in VA but didn't live there at the time. If that is what you mean then yes my 1911 has been a pain in my azz since day one when I ran 500 rounds of Black Hills reloads threw it.
     
  19. gadrooning

    gadrooning New Member

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    NGIB I will have to agree. The 1911 may not be the best gun for everyone. now before people go up in arms, this is what I mean. It is like handing Farrari keys to a teen who just got his or her license. It is something some people have to work up. I will have to admit, when I was on the market for my first handgun, I didn't know what a 1911 was. The gunsmith handed it to me and I thought it was large and clumsy. Well little did I know then. It wasn't until a couple of years later and purchase of 4 other guns did I truely appreciate the simplicity of engineering, balance, reliability, and craftsmanship of the 1911. Just the sound of a 45 turned me off back then. I think for many first time buyers it is more about concealability or just raw power for hunting or something smaller for plinking. I think there is a smaller market of us who just love shooting it and strive to improve our shooting and take pride in the customization of the 1911. I will have to agree it is not the best first gun for everyone, but I will have to say argueably it one of the best if not the best handgun to this date. I will say that is the reason why the design has not changed for almost a hundred years, and that is saying alot.