1858 revolver

Discussion in 'Blackpowder & Musket' started by saviorslegacy, Apr 17, 2010.

  1. saviorslegacy

    saviorslegacy New Member

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    My father was interested in one and last night he sat down and was prowly through the internet comparing prices. At first my thoughts were, "meh, I want a revolver, but I want something like a peace maker" but then I read a little bit about them.
    I was quite intrigued about this revolver after I saw one loaded. IMO, all guns go bang, but not all are loader the same/have the same method of putting the next round into the chamber.
    This gun takes a while to reload, and is very unique.
    Now a few months ago I was looking into what was called a Colt Revolving Rifle. During this time I read about a horrible little thing called chain firing, which had been known to blow off peoples hands (OW!).
    I was afraid that this, being a revolver from the same era, would have the same draw backs. I was correct, but luckily we are now smart enough to avoid such... accidents.
    I read that you can use greased bullets, grease your chambers or use greased cloth behind the bullet. I also read that you cut up a t-shirt and rub some crisco on it so that it will act in the place of the wads that you would have to buy (is this accurate information?)

    I then read a story about, hands blowing up. So I have learned my lesson that smokeless powder is not meant to be used here.
    Then I read about hands blowing up, again. So I learned that you must always shove the ball ALL of the way down and compress the powder some.
    Once again, hands are getting blown up buy this weapon. The lesson this time is to accurately measure your powder.
    Alright, I think that concludes the destruction of body parts segment, time to move on.

    So that is what I have learned so far. I want to know if I have anything wrong or if you guys know something that I don't (which you always seem to do.....).
    Now what I do not know is how powerful this weapon is. I read somewhere that it is comparable to a modern .380...
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuBDb5IzHlY]YouTube - Remington Model 1858 New Army Police .36 cal revolver[/ame]
    Is this true or is it hog wash?
    ps I want a .44 and in that video he has a .36.
    What is the .44 comparable too?

    Now onto the guns that I have my eyes on.
    I like this one the most:
    Cabela's -- 1858 New Army Stainless Steel .44 Caliber Target Revolver

    (and) this one:
    Cabela's -- 1858 New Army .44 Caliber Revolver

    With the little but of knowledge I have about these weapons it looks to me like the only difference is the finish......
    If that is so why is the other one like 130$ more?
    Also, have I made a good choice on what revolver to get?


    ps I read that there is a safety in between each shot. There is a hammer rest there so that you cannot accidently shoot your gun.
    Why didn't they use this in later models? It seems like a good way to prevent accidents to me. Instead they came up with that half cock safety and people started to only load 5 chambers...... -_-
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2010
  2. saviorslegacy

    saviorslegacy New Member

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    will someone at least tell me I have something right or that I have something wrong.
     

  3. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    If this was in the black powder section...:cool:
     
  4. stalkingbear

    stalkingbear Active Member

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    It's just me but I always used plain round balls (slightly oversized) and shaved a light ring of lead when seating it in the cylinder. After the cylinder is loaded do I seal the cylinder holes in the front with grease. I've been shooting them like that my whole adult life without mishap. I don't use patches or wads, just grease in front of the ball after it's seated.
     
  5. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Thread moved. The problem with the "expansion" premis is the balls are Dead soft, pure lead that deform quite easily. A 2X4 and bucket of water is hardly an accurate test medium for bullet expansion.
     
  6. TXnorton

    TXnorton New Member

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    The 1958 (Remington) is a cap and ball pistol. There are also the Colt type open top cap and ball pistols. The Peacemaker is a cartridge round pistol, not a cap and ball. Different as night and day (I have both).

    Cap and ball revolvers are as safe as the person using them.

    Buy and read the Lyman's Black Powder Handbook.

    Do some more research, and there are a number of informative videos on U-Tube on how to load and fire C&B pistols. I think Cabelas even had one in their on-line catalog website.

    Grease over the ball or lubricated felt wads below the ball are effective counter-measures for chain fires. If you do either one properly, you should not have a chain fire.

    No you can not use smokeless powder, no you can not have any airspace between the black powder and the ball or bullet (in any type BP firearm).

    If you are going to carry a cap and ball pistol then you should only load 5 chambers and keep the hammer down on the empty chamber. I load all six when shooting at the range.

    If you have any other specific other questions, post away!
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2010
  7. saviorslegacy

    saviorslegacy New Member

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    Now I thought there was a hammer rest between chambers. That way you could load all 6 and carry it safely.
     
  8. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    Ok, now I have to ask - carry as in a self-defense gun?
     
  9. saviorslegacy

    saviorslegacy New Member

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    No, but when me and my father go into the woods we usually carry a gun. Mainly because it feels nice to carry and walk around freely. We also shoot some.
    If need be it MIGHT be needed for self defense due to it being handy.
    If I had my choice I would use a 1911 for seld defense.
    I do have to say this though, the 1858 will provide a smoke screen for retreating to spend 30 minutes reloading. lol

    Just wondering, why were you curious?
     
  10. Hawg

    Hawg New Member

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    Ok as for the price difference, stainless costs more plus it has adjustable sights where the blued model you posted doesn't.
    Chain firing wont blow your hand off literally. Not saying it won't cause serious injury if your hand is in front of the cylinder when it chains. Chambers firing out of battery are very weak as there's no bore pressure and balls will only go a few yards. Lubing over the balls works to keep fouling soft as long as no petroleum based lubes are used. Only use vegetable based lubes like Crisco. Crisco gets very runny in summer heat so a lot of shooters make their own lubes or grease cookies form Crisco and beeswax. Others prefer lubed wads under the balls. The .44 is close to a .38 spcl in power maybe a little stronger. Round balls should be pure lead or very close to it and slightly bigger than chamber size so a ring of lead gets shaved on loading. Myself as most others prefer .454 balls for a .44. As for the safety between chambers it is there and I've used them with all six chambers loaded for over 40 years but I recommend just loading 5 unless you use a period correct holster that covers all the cylinder and most of the hammer. No Hollywood fast draw stuff. The revolvers Cabela's sells are Pietta's which are very good quality revolvers now days however most of them as well as Uberti can usually benefit from some smoothing of the internals. If stainless and adjustable sights aren't necessities for you you might check one of these out. It's Pietta's CCH model with checkered grips. The checkering isn't period correct and the CCH was only found on late production Remingtons but the action is smooth and the hammer is the lightest of any factory Remington clone I've seen.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    Not many folks, actually none that I've heard of, carry a BP revolver for defense in the woods. Just a strange choice IMHO...
     
  12. Hawg

    Hawg New Member

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    I've killed a ton of snakes with one. Mostly water mocassins and some timber rattlers.
     
  13. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Grasshopper, you have learned your first lesson-

    READ the directions!

    Yes, it is important to follow the steps to load and fire ANY firearm safely and effectively. Yes, a ball and cap is different from a cartridge revolver.

    Yes, they had a surprising bit of power. Not a .44 Magnum, but not a Super Soaker water pistol either. DO take the time to do some reading- many of the reloading manuals have section of shooting black powder arms, and several makers/ powder companies have good info on line. I try to buy at least 2 books for each gun I buy- and have wound up keeping some books longer than some guns.
     
  14. saviorslegacy

    saviorslegacy New Member

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    I love old things. I think I am the only college student in my area that walks over to the old antique shops after classes.

    IMO, old things are awesome, and some old ways are cool too.
    The problem with today is people have forgotten their past.
    The past is how you are here right now, without the past there is no now and the past repeats itself. So I find it very important to know as much about the past as possible.
    Luckily, my love for fire arms and my love for old things go hand in hand. So I am attracted to old guns.
    So why not carry and old gun that you love, or at least I believe I will love it.
    The problem with most books is they draw things out to make the book longer. They spend fifty pages on something that only needed eight or so.
    Not saying that I am not going to read, I'm just saying I am going to piss and moan over the the watered down materials.....
     
  15. hillmillenia

    hillmillenia New Member

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    This conversation has been interesting. If you want to carry a BP revolver in the woods for plinking and off hand shooting hell I can't see a reason why you should'nt. If you ever really needed it for self defense (not likely) and you came out of it in one piece, you'd have quite a story to tell. It's more likely you'd use it to dispatch the occasional critter. I would still pack a modern auto-loader if I was hiking through the woods for self-defense.
     
  16. saviorslegacy

    saviorslegacy New Member

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    Unless you know something I don't, I thought that critters were like the only problems in the woods.
    It's not like muggers hide in the woods.... right?

    And yes, it would be quite a story to tell.
    "Seen any grizz?" "Why yes, I killed a Grizzeled bear the other day with a black powder revolver."
     
  17. hillmillenia

    hillmillenia New Member

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    I'm funny that way...I have a pistol with me at all times whether I'm in the woods or the mall and we can all agree the mall is far more dangerous. Like I said, I'm just funny that way...ha ha :rolleyes:
     
  18. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Where are you more isolated from help, a late-night fuel stop or out in the middle of a few hundred acres of woods? Yes, people do get mugged and worse in the woods; remember the freaky dude a couple of years ago who got caught for killing the female hiker (and an older couple IIRC)?

    Down here, i worry about snakes & friggin meth cooks when i venture into "the woods". In Cali & many other areas, state park-type areas have become a popular place for illegal pot fields tended by people who will not want you talking about their field (sad side effect of prohibition).

    edit* maybe this was the killer i was thinking of: http://crime.about.com/od/current/a/hilton.htm not certain.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2010
  19. tiberius10721

    tiberius10721 New Member

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    I keep my 1858 uberti remington loaded in my house for self defense . This is a very accurate pistol.
     
  20. superc

    superc Member

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    I use lard myself. The pig kind, like they had back then. Biggest problem I have with C&B revolvers is the little caps jumping off the nipple at recoil and occasionally causing a jam. I suspect the old timers had that same issue which is one of the reasons why everyone jumped on cartridge guns when they came out. I also find my .36 C&B to be almost exactly the same in recoil, accuracy and power as a generic .38 Special loaded with wadcutters. Can't speak to the .44s.