1858 Remington New Navy .44

Discussion in 'Blackpowder & Musket' started by GeneralPatton, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

    1,036
    0
    0
    I got this in a collection of guns I'm liquidating for a friend. I'm having a hard time identifying it due to loads of conflicting information on the net. See if any of you guys can decode this thing

    Under the loading lever is the following: Gregorelli & Uberti Gardone VT - Itally
    The serial number on the bottom is 2919
    The two stamped markings are PN and XVIII Above the PN is what appears to be a star in a circle and next to the XVIII is something I can't discern, it looks like a small shield with something in the middle, and much lighter stamped star in a circle above it

    Anyone have any ideas? I think I read it was a 1962 production that was done before Gregorelli & Uberti dissolved their partnership. From another board, I found this:
    Gregorelli & Uberti were only in business for around four years, 1959-1962, when it then became just Uberti. The GU initials will only be found on these revolvers and was the company logo. It is difficult to go by serial number because Uberti continued from the GU production numbers. The date code is more important since there is documentation as to when the Gregorelli & Uberti partnership dissolved.

    I have no idea if it that old or not, and the only person who had knowledge of this gun has since passed away. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I also need to estimate it's value for the purpose of liquidation. The holster came along with it. Here are a couple pictures:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    That's not corrosion in the chamber, it's grease. I read they packed them with grease to avoid unintentional firing of multiple chambers.
    Thanks guys
     
  2. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

    19,847
    3
    0
    It's an 1858 Remington New Army. Navy models don't have a top strap.

    New Uberti's of that model sell for $300.-$350. for a blued model. I don't know if there would be a premium on the earlier model or not. I wouldn't think so, but my black powder knowledge is somewhat limited. They're fun to shoot and some people are addicted to them. They are a bit cumbersome to load and shoot, but that's part of the ritual that people enjoy.

    Personally, I think everyone should own at least one BP revolver.
     

  3. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

    1,036
    0
    0
    You know, I thought it was an Army but all the pictures I looked at showed the Army model having a brass frame, whereas the Navy only had the brass Trigger guard. Then again, I know nothing about these. I read that it was super rare to find one of the 1959-1962 years in functional condition. Of course, it's the internet so it has to be true. :rolleyes:
     
  4. thdrduck

    thdrduck New Member

    489
    0
    0
    The difference between Army and Navy is caliber. Army is .44 and Navy is .36. Most original brass frame revolvers were manufactured in the south during the civil war. Brass was cheaper to produce then steel and the south was hard up for money. Depending on overall condition I would say somewhere between $100 and $200 with $200 being up on the high side.
     
  5. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

    19,847
    3
    0
    ^^^ Yes, that's average for used ones. I just wonder if it being an earlier model brings a premium.
     
  6. trip286

    trip286 New Member

    18,658
    1
    0
    I'd buy it. Finish your research and throw a number at me and we can negotiate from there.

    Just note, I'm not hurting for it, and I'm not going to make anyone rich off a repro who's claim to fame is being old. My understanding is that the quality actually improved after their split (probably the reason you don't hear of many of that age still working).
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  7. thdrduck

    thdrduck New Member

    489
    0
    0
    Just my opinion, I have had 3 different brands of rem 58's and the Uberti was the best quality. CVA made one in kit form for a little while (the worst of the 3) Pietta is OK, just not as refined as the Uberti. CA357, I think you are confusing the colt navies with the remingtons. None of the colts had a top strap and the navy colt was very popular, still is. Colt offered way more variations then remington did. The way ammo is so hard to come by now, I wouldn't mind a short barrel remington navy for CC. A full size army is a bit hard to conceal.
     
  8. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

    19,847
    3
    0
    Thanks for the info Duck. :cool:
     
  9. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

    1,036
    0
    0
    I should have been more detailed in my post. When I said hard to find one still functional, it was because people that bought them tended to abuse them by not caring for them properly since many people don't understand the complexities of black powder. Many of the pictures I saw were of rusted, battered weapons. The earliest models were well built, and many of the early years were done completely by hand. I've been trying to decode what stamps I can find, however the information is hard to find, and many places state that several of the markings have never been decoded. The best I can estimate, is that I've gotten the year down as 1962, and that appears to have been at the end of the time that Gregorelli & Uberti were partners. Uberti bought Gregorelli out, and it became just Uberti thereafter. It seems that the lower numbered units have better value to those who collect these repro's more than those who shoot them. Either which way, I'm not out to rape anyone on price. I just want to get a fair price for the fellow I'm selling it for.
     
  10. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

    1,036
    0
    0
    You don't allow PM's but if you'd PM me I'd like to ask you some questions about them seeing as you own a few and probably know tons more than I do.
     
  11. trip286

    trip286 New Member

    18,658
    1
    0
    Well, like I said, I'd like to have one. Figure out a dollar amount and we'll see if we can talk.
     
  12. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

    1,036
    0
    0
    I'll do it. I'm trying to get all the info worked out. I want to be fair to both the owner I'm selling it for, and to the buyer who purchases it. I have several feelers out looking for information along with myself cruising the net searching for "concrete truth" rather than speculations. As soon as I know the whole story, I'll hit you up with a PM.

    GP
     
  13. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

    1,036
    0
    0
    So after talking to some fellas on the black powder forums, and an old timer at the range today we determined it was made in 1962. It is one of the earliest models made by Uberti and is of the finest quality reproductions out there. They also came to a consensus that there really isn't that much of a collectible market it, other than just Uberti fanatics. They all also agreed it's worth between $250-$300 depending on the buyer, saying that the re-enactment crowd would likely pay the most. So, I think I did enough due diligence to make sure the seller gets his fair shake, and the buyer gets a good gun for a good price. I don't want either to get the shaft, which is why I searched all those forums and talked to folks about it. Trip, I sent you a PM :cool:
     
  14. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

    1,036
    0
    0
    If anyone is interested in purchasing it, shoot me a PM. I'll let it go for $225 shipped to your door within 5 business days short of a catastrophy.

    PM Me if you wan't to talk more about it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013