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Newb 9mm shooter, grip issues

4K views 59 replies 15 participants last post by  CZ Newb 
#1 ·
So I just got a CZ P10C about 3 weeks ago. My first gun. Ive got about 600 or 700 rounds thru it so far. obviously i've had to learn from scratch so i've been learning from youtube vids. Been watching vids from carrytrainer, Rob Vogel, Mike Glover etc.

Overall its going well but there is one major issue I am having and several smaller issues which I think are related:

1) My left hand will simply NOT stay in place. Essentially every time I shoot, the recoil will make the left hand shift substantially. (shooting 115 and 124 grain ammo like federal, red army standard, blazer etc)

So that in itself is a major problem. But there are other issues that might help us troubleshoot the root issue.

2) my slide rarely locks back when I shoot the last bullet. At first I thought I was probably "riding the slide stop" from trying to get my left hand high up on the gun etc, but today I tried some right hand only shots and the slide would still not lock back. I tried it several times by chambering a round and then putting an empty mag in and it would pretty consistently not lock back.

So that makes me think part of my left hand issues might be caused by the right hand sort of "limp wristing"...even though of course I am trying to lock the wrists firmly etc

3) accuracy issues. well my first day on the range of course I sort of had the low-left syndrome going. But now im pretty consistently missing a bit high left. My accuracy is getting better and today I finally shot a full magazine into one of the 4ish" diamonds on one of those rifle siting targets from about 8 yds

A bit about me. Im a 53 yr old male and I grew up doing all the athletic sports stuff. Also I have lifted weights on and off for many years. Though I didnt do much physical exercise stuff in my 40s (lol) I have been back lifting weights solid for over a year now.

My grip has never been that strong and ive almost always used straps in the gym on back day etc.

So what does it sound like to you guys? Is this just a normal newb thing where the hands just have to get coordinated to this exact skill etc??

Though my grip strength has never been my strongest point, I find it hard to believe that basic grip strength is my issue. I see female pros shooting great and they weigh like 150. I find it hard to believe that they have some sort of superhuman strength developed (but I may be wrong lol). Hard to believe that a 215lb guy who lifts weights isnt strong enough to shoot a 9mm without the left hand almost flying off the gun

Could it be more stance and alignment related? for instance at first i was just doing what seemed natural and it ended up being sort of a Weaver thing with the rt arm straighter and left arm more bent. Im rt eye dominant. I am thinking perhaps this is why I was/am missing to the left more....that perhaps having the gun more on the rt side of my body and using that dominant rt eye is giving me too much of a sideways angle across the target

I am thinking that the Weaver type setup gives the rt hand and arm some nice straight angles but then the left hand is sort of disadvantaged

So today I started trying to use a more isosceles setup a little more like Bob Vogel. It did seem to help my accuracy though my left hand still moved around a lot.


So what to do??? this is pissing me off lol.

I am attempting to grip like a see in the Vogel vids or Lenny McGill and Carry Trainer vids etc. I have the rt hand as high as possible up under the "beavertail" area. I have tried gripping harder, I have tried torquing the left arm clockwise, I have tried sort of squeezing the arms together using chest strength etc. So far the left hand just moves all over the place.

Could it be that I am OVERgripping it? or are my hands simply not strong enough yet? perhaps my arms and body are strong enough to really resist the recoil but then the hands and maybe wrists are the weak point??

I find it hard to believe that all good shooters have brute hand strength though. Is it more of just a coordination thing that takes a few thousand more rounds??


Thanks for any help
 
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#2 ·
Wow.
Some first post. I hold my pistol firmly but not a death grip. Squeeze your pistol too hard and your hands will shake.
It looks like a pretty slick gun.
Perhaps you are thinking too hard.
Have you tried wearing gloves? I do not even think about "squeezing" my pecs while shooting.

Maybe have the Mrs. take a photo of your grip, and post that.

If you are shooting right handed while right eye dominant, your point of aim should be good.
 
#4 ·
Wow.
Some first post. I hold my pistol firmly but not a death grip. Squeeze your pistol too hard and your hands will shake.
It looks like a pretty slick gun.
Perhaps you are thinking too hard.
Have you tried wearing gloves? I do not even think about "squeezing" my pecs while shooting.

Maybe have the Mrs. take a photo of your grip, and post that.

If you are shooting right handed while right eye dominant, your point of aim should be good.
I always think too hard....trust me, this was the edited down version lol.

Then again, the left hand IS moving all over the place...its not my imagination

Gloves crossed my mind a bit today. it has been hot and humid lately which definitely isnt helping my grip any
 
#3 ·
My advice to you is to seek out a gun trainer in your area and sign up for training/lessons that will be worth the money you will pay. Your local gun shop/range will be able to point you in the right direction or you can go to your local police station and there are some police officers or ex police that give training lessons at a very reasonable price. You seem to need guidance with guns so go for it!
 
#6 ·
There are quite a few videos and tutorials specifically on proper grip. Some are very good and some are very bad. Stick with names that have a lot of following. Best is a good trainer as it will save a lot of ammo.

 
#9 ·
its interesting in that top vid when he fires around 3:25...his left hand clearly shifts position lol

yeah I may see if I can find an instructor. In a sense it would be logical for me to find a female instructor (as opposed to a big strong dude) for my exact question because logic says that if she can fire and hold her grip then its more of a technique thing than a brute strength thing

its interesting though because I have tried several of the things ive seen in the vids and so far the left hand wont hold. it reminds me of when I was a personal trainer and this adult male came in and he literally couldnt do 1 correct pushup and had to strain to curl a 20lb dbell a few times. It wasnt a brute strength thing per se, its just that he had never done much physical stuff before.....just like ive never shot much before
 
#7 ·
I tried it several times by chambering a round and then putting an empty mag in and it would pretty consistently not lock back.
Just a quick question, your not actually dropping a round in the chamber then closing the slide and then putting the empty mag in are you?

Or are you loading the mag with 1 round, putting it in, rack the slide and then you fire to see if the slide locks back?
 
#11 ·
dropping a rd in from the top side? uhmm, no lol. I might have an empty mag sitting there. I put in a loaded mag, chamber a rd, take that mag out and put the empty back in.

Will the slide still lock back that way or am i somehow defeating the lock by doing it that way?

in any case, even if I lose track of how many rds I have left and shoot till im empty, the slide only rarely locks back. I have assumed it was because i am riding the stop by having the left hand up TOO high but as i said, today I did it with rt hand only and it only worked correctly maybe half the time.
 
#8 ·
Maybe your tensing up to much too? Im relaxed when im shooting for the most part. Firm enough grip yes. But not over kill. I don't lock up my arms. Sorta use them as a shock absorber. Not sure how else to explain it. I been shooting for a long time. Over 40 years. Hand gun over 30. My 1st one was a 44 mag.
 
#14 ·
my target from today. just so we know im not totally clueless. These were all from about 8 yds. Nothing to brag about but then again im not missing the entire target or anything.

1 mag per target, starting top left and going clockwise and finishing with center target. The flyers on the upper left were probably my first 2 shots.

The bottom left had only the 2 shots a bit out of the target. The shot thats totally off that target was of course the last shot when the pressure was on. But I then went to the center target and at least got everything inside the lines.

again, nothing to brag about but this was like my 5th time at the range? I just post that to give context to the questions. Even though I am struggling a bit with my grip im not clueless.

A few more trips to the range and hopefully ill disclaim this target

I ask questions to learn and get better
 

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#18 ·
my target from today. just so we know im not totally clueless. These were all from about 8 yds. Nothing to brag about but then again im not missing the entire target or anything.

1 mag per target, starting top left and going clockwise and finishing with center target. The flyers on the upper left were probably my first 2 shots.

The bottom left had only the 2 shots a bit out of the target. The shot thats totally off that target was of course the last shot when the pressure was on. But I then went to the center target and at least got everything inside the lines.

again, nothing to brag about but this was like my 5th time at the range? I just post that to give context to the questions. Even though I am struggling a bit with my grip im not clueless.

A few more trips to the range and hopefully ill disclaim this target

I ask questions to learn and get better
Yeah I was about to ask you more about how your grip actually looks like but damn, that's actually really good from 8 yards.

I'll tell you what, keep practicing like bushman said, but however your grip is to get that accurate at 8 yards I mean especially those corner targets and groupings (again, that's really good) Try keeping that same grip but try shooting from like 10 yards and then 15 and see if your accuracy/groupings stay the same or changes.

I mean that could mean your grip is fine, its more practice is probably all you really need.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Does your grip look like mine here? This is with the P-10S, (BTW, eCZellenct CZoice in sidearm, my personal EDC is a 1st gen P-10C FDE.) not the Compact - you can see it holstered on my right side though.
nah, I think both my thumbs r a bit higher than that. I dont think there is anything in the LOOK of my grip that would stand out as clunky

I went back to the range yesterday and at one point had a guy look at my grip etc. He happened to be a P10 owner. He suggested I try the larger backstrap and/or not wrapping the right hand around as far (edit) counter clockwise as I had it.

So I started experimenting with that and I started getting some improvement etc....though I have a ways to go of course.

Ill shoot some more next week and see what happens
 
#26 ·
One of the first mistakes I found new shooters was the classic death grip - "if I don't squeeze hard it will jump out of my hands and someone will get hurt. " However, looking at your targets I see pretty darn good shooting, nothing to worry about. Don't expect target accuracy from a compact carry pistol. Also, have you cleaned under the extractor claw? That little bugger can give you some issues if it gets clogged from many rounds of no cleaning.
 
#29 ·
Congratulations on getting into your first sidearm, by the way. All of us have been there, done that.


My first gun ... i've had to learn from scratch ...

1) My left hand will simply NOT stay in place. Essentially every time I shoot, the recoil will make the left hand shift substantially ...

3) accuracy issues. well my first day on the range of course I sort of had the low-left syndrome going. But now im pretty consistently missing a bit high left. My accuracy is getting better and today I finally shot a full magazine into one of the 4ish" diamonds on one of those rifle siting targets from about 8 yds
I did a DIY approach to getting competent with my first sidearm, as well. Until I met a couple of buddies who then took me through appropriate introductory training on stance, grip, sighting, trigger control, and the rest.

Points I had issues with early on that I corrected through learning and training, which might be worth considering in your case -- Stance, Grip/sizing, and Grip technique:

1. Stance: make it a reasonable "athletic" stance that's balanced and stable. You should be comfortably and repeatably able to aim at what you're shooting at as well as covering a good bit to the left and right of that spot, all without losing your basic balance.

I mention stance because the body (particularly if new to it all) can attempt to self-adjust for poor balance with respect to aim, and grip technique can suffer. Not that it's likely to be a stance issue, per se, but crappy stance can influence your resulting grip and aim.

2. Grip circumference: Really, this is a matter of proper fit. Not all hand sizes are tailor-made for a given sidearm's grip circumference. Too big, and your hand might not close around enough of the gun such that you've got a "good" controlled grip on it, simply due to the size of the thing. (I don't know the composite CZ's very well; my experience is with the CZ P-01.)

In the case of the P-10, try the various replaceable backstraps. You might find a significant difference between, say, the large and the small versions.

3. Grip grippiness: A lot of guns are made of a material that simply won't provide a rock-solid grip, and/or the checkering or stippling or grooves simply aren't sufficient to allow the hand to hold on reliably without shifting.

Case in point is the CZ P-01, which I'm very familiar with. Steel, decidedly non-grippy grooves on the frontstrap area of the grip, and a behemoth-sized grip circumference that isn't that friendly for those with smaller hands. Cured the grippiness with 18LPI checkered grip panels; and, though it was still a bit too large for me, the sliding around in my hand ceased at that point.

Given the P-10's plastic nature, there's not much you can do other than a stippling job to rough-up the surfaces where you grip it. On the frontstrap, the backstrap and the side panels. (Some custom shops might do such things with the P-10, so you should hunt around before contemplating any such alterations.)

4. Your grip technique: Vital, to get it right. One-handed firing with many sidearms can be problematic if any of the above issues exist. I'm assuming you do a two-handed grip. And there are tried-and-true ways to grip the sidearm. Have someone who knows, ideally a qualified instructor, evaluate your grip technique. It can make a huge difference, even with somewhat-oversized grip circumference and with somewhat less-than-grippy frames.

There are some Youtube vids that'll provide guidance on grip technique. Here's one:

Proper Pistol Grip: Handgun Tip | Gunsite Academy Firearms Training @ youtube.




In the end, you should consider all of the above. Might well be that, even if you're doing all the rest reasonably, the gun's simply too slick of a material, or too large in circumference for your hands. (I have that issue with many full-sized sidearms, including many of the CZ's.) Might simply be a matter of effective grip technique, and that as a newbie you're just not quite using both hands in an effective, supportive fashion. Working with a decent trainer on the fundamentals would be well worth a session, since everything else hinges on those fundamentals being done well.
 
#30 ·
The grip surface on the P10 is super aggressive. it literally hurts the freak out of your palm after a while

If anything I think ill try the larger backstrap. A guy at the range suggested that maybe I had my right hand fingers too far around the grip. I had been trying to push my hand way up into the beavertail like one is supposed to do but in the process I think i was wrapping the hand a bit too far counter clockwise so that the right wrist was really straight or possibly even slightly bowed. That wrapped the fingers way around but of course then the gun wasnt quite sitting right in the web between the thumb and index finger etc.

So I moved it back clockwise slightly which put a small back bend in the right wrist and got the gun a little more evenly placed in the web. It did seem to put a slight bit of slack as far as the fingers not being totally glued to the front of the grip....which is why i think ill try the larger backstrap.

I had been consistently missing slightly to the left even though I know I was aimed dead on. When I moved the grip slightly it pretty much put my groups more centered. So if I had, say, a 4" wide group, it would be 2" wide on both sides as opposed to all being left. That I can live with for the moment.

Another thing Ill work on is the feel of the trigger. When I try to pull straight back it doesnt feel as good as when i feel sort of like I am pulling "down and back". Or that might just be a way of saying that I have better trigger control when I am way down at the bottom of the trigger which I assume gives better leverage. It just feels much smoother and more consistent when I pull down to the bottom of the trigger whereas if I am a bit higher on the trigger it seems a bit more twitchy and unpredictable
 
#32 ·
The grip surface on the P10 is super aggressive. it literally hurts the freak out of your palm after a while
Ah, good. Well, that's one potential cause likely eliminated. Not having enough grip in the grip, so to speak, can lead to grip failure under firing, or when the hand's slick with perspiration or air moisture, or blood/mud/etc.

If anything I think ill try the larger backstrap. A guy at the range suggested that maybe I had my right hand fingers too far around the grip.
Yeah, being too small, or too short front-to-rear, can also be a problem.

Had a Browning BDM back in the '90s, and it's one slim unit, from side to side. Almost too darned thin to fill out the palms and allow the palms to actually help in gripping the gun. I'd estimate it was ~80% gripped simply by front-to-rear pressure on the frontstrap and backstrap, with next to no group coming from the slick side panels. I'd often sought out a vendor that could make custom grip panels with a pronounced palm swell, but never did find one.

I had been trying to push my hand way up into the beavertail like one is supposed to do but in the process I think i was wrapping the hand a bit too far counter clockwise so that the right wrist was really straight or possibly even slightly bowed.
You definitely want the hand comfortably behind the centerline of the gun. Imagine a line straight through the barrel, right out the back of the gun, right through the center of the web of your hand through the center of the wrist and up your forearm. You want the gun aligned more or less in the middle of this line of your hand and arm. As you suggest, you definitely don't want the hand gripped not far enough, or so far around, that the alignment's off-center. (Definitely don't want to be breaking the wrist left or right, either, but that's a wrist issue and not an issue of gripping per se.)

Another thing Ill work on is the feel of the trigger. When I try to pull straight back it doesnt feel as good as when i feel sort of like I am pulling "down and back".
How it feels is all well and good. But be sure the pull is consistently smooth. You don't want a jerky pull stroke. You also don't want to be pulling in all sorts of directions (ie, with a pronounced downward pull). Won't generally foul up the grip, but a ratty trigger pull can fool with your aim, particularly if it's jerky or pulls the barrel off-line during the pull stroke.

Or that might just be a way of saying that I have better trigger control when I am way down at the bottom of the trigger which I assume gives better leverage. It just feels much smoother and more consistent when I pull down to the bottom of the trigger whereas if I am a bit higher on the trigger it seems a bit more twitchy and unpredictable
Every trigger is different. And every trigger has a slightly different feel. Some are somewhat gritty, particularly until they've had many thousands of rounds through them, which eventually smooths-up the sear.

In the Browning BDM 9mm, I put 10K rounds through it before it seriously smoothed up. At which point, it was about as smooth, grit-free and close to "breaks like glass" as I've experienced in a DA/SA sidearm. At nearly 40K rounds, the trigger pull was almost too light, but it still broke as a surprise, without any grit or choppiness at all.

In the CZ P-01, at 3Krds, I actually had a professional trigger job done, one that raised the pull-weight of both the DA and the SA pulls. Eliminated 95% of the grittiness and choppiness of the pull, made the break very clean, though pull-weight was a bit higher. Accuracy improved, after the trigger job.

Pull-weight itself can also negatively impact accuracy. Best example I've got is a Remington 700 .243 rifle, where the factory trigger was too darned heavy, and sightly gritty. Had a Jewell competition trigger installed, which eliminated 100% of the grit, 100% of the choppy pull, and made the break a complete surprise. Accuracy went from ~1-1.25" at 100yds to a ragged cloverleaf, just from the trigger swap. Went from ~2in at 300yds to about 5/8" groups. Amazing impact, that trigger smoothness and crispness.

No idea how strong the pull-weight is on your particular gun (they can vary from gun to gun, even with the same model). No idea how gritty or choppy your particular trigger is. In time, it'll smooth up as you put thousands of rounds through it. Or, if you decide the pull is detrimental to accuracy, you can always have a trigger job done. I'd just give it time and continue focusing on your fundamentals.


Good evals, so far. Definitely get a couple of different instructor-types to give their feedback on basic stance, grip and trigger technique. It'll help. Each person might see something slightly different and offer up a useful tip or two.
 
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#33 ·
I agree on the very aggressive texturing - oil, blood, sweat - it ain't going nowhere! My first P-10C I used some light sandpaper to "break" the front and back very slightly, and that helped a great deal. The White Nitride felt "better" even though it was the same texturing, and I left it alone. The P-10S I left alone too, feels great.
 
#34 · (Edited)
getting a little better.

Today at the range I didnt think so much about the grip particulars and TBH I probably wasnt gripping that hard. I had worked on dry firing as far as just simply getting used to going to the "wall" of the trigger and then breaking it etc

Im assuming part of my slipping left hand is just due to not knowing exactly when the gun is going to fire. As my trigger control gets better maybe the grip issues wont be as noticeable

The 4 corner diamonds are a magazine each at 9 yards. (9 decent stretched out paces for me at 5'8" lol). The center was 9 yds but it was shot much "faster" as in like maybe a shot every 2 seconds or whatever. No conscious regripping or anything, just shooting, getting the sight picture and shooting again etc

Then I moved it in to 7 yds and shot a 5 shots each into the upper 3 red lines and a full mag into the lower red line. As with the diamonds, the first one was the worst one.

Its interesting how I shot way better into the vertical red line and its got something to do with actually narrowing the focus more. When you have a smaller, more defined target you concentrate more and are more precise whereas with a larger target you are sort of relaxed more. So obviously I need to learn to focus on smaller more defined areas. for instance instead of trying to just get somewhere inside the diamond, try instead to just hit the bullseye etc

Only about 3 of these shots really pissed me off. The one flyer at the top just sort of ruins the whole experience for me lol. How the freak does that even happen? Flinched I guess...dunno

cest la vie. Getting better anyway
 

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#38 ·
Im assuming part of my slipping left hand is just due to not knowing exactly when the gun is going to fire. As my trigger control gets better maybe the grip issues wont be as noticeable
While grip and trigger control are two different things, they can impact one another. As you say, likely as your trigger technique improves you'll see less issue with your grip. (Assuming it's sized correctly, assuming it's "grippy" enough for your hand, assuming the centerline of your hand is aligned right down the bore axis.)

Look into the "crush grip" described by Massad Ayoob (from his old StressFire books, IIRC). It's not everyone's cup of tea, but it can illustrate how grip can correct some of the issues you're speaking of.


The 4 corner diamonds are a magazine each at 9 yards. (9 decent stretched out paces for me at 5'8" lol). The center was 9 yds but it was shot much "faster" as in like maybe a shot every 2 seconds or whatever. No conscious regripping or anything, just shooting, getting the sight picture and shooting again etc
Not bad aim, there, for ~7-9yds. As you develop that "muscle memory" and your technique keeps improving, you'll continue to see the groups tighten up.

Another practice sequence to try: draw a circle around those squares, and then try shooting around the circle, shot by shot. Is challenging, but it can really show whether your techniques and control are resulting in improvements. In time, you can speed up slightly, use smaller (ie 2", or even 1") pasters.


Its interesting how I shot way better into the vertical red line and its got something to do with actually narrowing the focus more. When you have a smaller, more defined target you concentrate more and are more precise whereas with a larger target you are sort of relaxed more. So obviously I need to learn to focus on smaller more defined areas. for instance instead of trying to just get somewhere inside the diamond, try instead to just hit the bullseye etc
It all helps, in time. There's a lot of micro-motor control going on with hand position, aim, sighting, trigger technique. And they all need to come together pretty exactingly, in order for stellar accuracy to occur. Even more so, under faster or "pressured" conditions. Be patient, and keep focusing on the fundamentals. In time, you'll see improvements.


Only about 3 of these shots really pissed me off. The one flyer at the top just sort of ruins the whole experience for me lol. How the freak does that even happen? Flinched I guess...dunno
"Flyers" are the bane of shooting, to be sure. Happens to everyone, occasionally. Forget the fundamentals, get excited, get too tense in the muscles, whatever ... and poof! there goes one or two off into (or even off) the "wilds" of the target.
 
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#35 ·
Slow down and see if pulling the trigger gently gets you back on the bullseye. A common mistake is, once you hit the center, you fell like you “got it”, accelerate the follow ups, and get rough on the trigger.

For the supporting hand, find the most comfortable position. It is not critical to point your thumb along the frame. Try a cross-thumb grip. As a matter of fact most of the “death grip” effort comes from the supporting hand. The shooting hand fingers may slightly relax, so you have a better control of your trigger finger.

Limp wristing, don’t worry about it, it’s old wives tales.
 
#36 ·
im shooting "slow" all the time lol. "fast" for me right now is still pretty slow. I havent tried to double tap or anything

Im thinking most of this will sort itself out over the course of a few thousand rounds. I will also continue to resolve to get better and better focused with my targets etc. Im "proud" of todays target but only for today. Just like the last target I posted is not satisfactory any more lol. Todays target is only good for a while. It will have to be better next time

I just picked a terrible time to get into it, considering ammo cost

----

Some of it is also plan old fashioned muscle memory/muscle learning etc. I noticed my left forearm was getting a bit pumped at the range today.
 
#40 ·
Training in person.. that is how I would deal with in. The longer you keep doing things "wrong" the harder it will be to correct.
^ Great point, right there.

"Muscle memory" goes both ways. We get better at what we practice, IOW practice "makes perfect." And if what we're practicing sucks, or won't survive a situation under stress, or will simply compound other aspects of fundamentals, it can be very hard to get rid of.

It's always good to get a couple of competent, experienced, professional opinions, face-to-face, when up against questions of fundamentals. It's what everything else hinges on, in the end. Need to get those things "right." Once right, it'll largely be ingrained for a lifetime.
 
#45 ·
@CZ Newb -- If you ever get the chance, consider one of the following ...

GunSite Academy. Such as their 3-day GunSite 150 course, or their 5-day GunSite 250 one.

Thunder Ranch. One of their various Defensive Handgun courses.


Can ensure you've got the fundamentals down, and helps provide a solid basic knowledge for use of defensive arms in self-defense situations.
 
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#50 ·
I qualified Expert or Distinguished Expert every year for the last 18 years with my outfit, but as actual combat shooting training goes, it's bare bones minimum. I recently came into a Front Sight membership, and when things calm down and I can do it, I am going to take some of their classes. I started off getting trained by my dad how to shoot, and I have taken the time to educate my son as well as best I can.
 
#53 ·
I appreciate your perspective but I bet over 90% of the people who shoot guns regularly didnt get any real training. Possibly 99% including on this forum.
And 90% of the people who shoot guns regularly don't do a good job of it.

What professional training have you had?
I've had The NRA Basic Handgun Safety course. I've had low light training from my employer. I've been through the EMT-B course. I've had threat assessment and UOF and Critical Incident Reponse training. I e had FOF training. I've had training on how to clear a building. OC/Handcuffing training. and I graduated from the Field Artillery Training Center at Ft. Sill Oklahoma.


I mean, you do realize we have thousands of pros giving lessons on youtube etc?
The guys on YouTube can't assess your performance and correct your deficiencies.


"good luck"?? what am i doing...climbing Mt Everest? sheez
No you're training to defend yourself against someone without violating your local Use Of Force laws.
 
#54 ·
And 90% of the people who shoot guns regularly don't do a good job of it.



I've had The NRA Basic Handgun Safety course. I've had low light training from my employer. I've been through the EMT-B course. I've had threat assessment and UOF and Critical Incident Reponse training. I e had FOF training. I've had training on how to clear a building. OC/Handcuffing training. and I graduated from the Field Artillery Training Center at Ft. Sill Oklahoma.




The guys on YouTube can't assess your performance and correct your deficiencies.




No you're training to defend yourself against someone without violating your local Use Of Force laws.
FO
 
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