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New York AG Seeks to Dissolve The NRA

4K views 93 replies 18 participants last post by  alsaqr 
#1 ·
#3 · (Edited)
Can't see how any legal agency in the U.S. has any authority, whatsoever, to dissolve such an organization.

It has every authority to investigate, examine and charge on accusations of specific crimes. And those crimes can be addressed in a court of law.

Of course, it's all but certain dissolution IS their end-game, here. They want the NRA and all similar groups gone. All the better to set fire to the RKBA's ostensible protections in the BOR.

The wolves are at the gate, so to speak.

God, do I despise what such attorneys (DA's, AG's) can do when they get riled, despite to what the rule of law restricts them.
 
#4 ·
Can't see how any legal agency in the U.S. has any authority, whatsoever, to dissolve such an organization.
The NRA is chartered in the state of New York. The NY AG has the authority to investigate allegations of wrong doing in non-profit organizations chartered in that state.

For decades Wayne La Pierre and his minions have run the NRA like a fiefdom, aided and abetted the board of directors. Members of the NRA have absolutely no voice in the running of the organization.

Do not underestimate Letitia James. She dissolved the Trump Foundation piggy bank and fined them 2 million dollars.

The NRA Foundation is a charity, chartered in Washington, DC. That organization is being investigated because the organization, among other things, made sweetheart loans to the NRA proper.
 
#9 ·
Sounds more like a political move to attract attention to her for her next election effort more than anything. I can see a liberal wacko at election time saying, "See? I tried to take on the NRA!"

At best she might be able to disrupt NRA activities, some of them, inside of New York state but that will be short term and the NRA will rebound with a vengeance. In the long run, this action may hurt her more than help her.
 
#11 ·
At best she might be able to disrupt NRA activities, some of them, inside of New York state but that will be short term and the NRA will rebound with a vengeance.
This is an election year, where are the NRA political ads? Everything the NRA owns is mortgaged to the hilt. Wells Fargo dropped the NRA credit line. Wayne La Pierre and his cronies accomplished what the anti-gunners failed to do: Destroy the NRA.
 
#10 ·
All I have to say, is what I can not really say on Social Media! And these AG's and DAs in the USA are ______of______in my opinion! And also those who attack our rights for their political agendas. Seems if you look at them closely and their profiles, they are almost all carbon copies of each other and one in the same.;)

03
 
#17 ·
No great loss if it is dissolved.
That will get NRA out of the way of and shyponing money from actual hardline RTKABA orgs that actually do support the 2A as written.
They are either too small or too weird to be relevant. As of today, it’s the NRA or bust. If Letitia succeeds there will be a giant sucking sound as America’s gun rights are flushed down the toilet.
 
#15 ·
An op-ed from National Review about the attacks from the NY Attorney General's office.


New York’s Lawless NRA Lawsuit @ National Review, 8/6/20.

The latest bananas news from the banana republic that is the State of New York: The attorney general, a political enemy of the National Rifle Association, is seeking to have the advocacy organization legally dissolved. The pretext is financial corruption and self-dealing on the part of the NRA’s leadership.

To say that the corruption case is pretextual is not to say that it is made up out of whole cloth. The NRA, once the most effective organization of its kind, has indeed been mired in incompetent leadership and financial mismanagement for years. Its evolution from sporting club and canny Second Amendment advocate to full-service culture-war outfit has done no favors either for the organization itself or, more important, for the cause to which it purports to be committed. As much as we share the group’s commitment to the Bill of Rights, we would not be entirely surprised if actionable financial wrongdoing were uncovered.

At the same time, the effort to dissolve the NRA is nonetheless a plainly partisan political attack. The point here is not to fight nonprofit fraud but a Democratic effort to embarrass and hobble a political opponent, to burden it with expensive and cumbrous litigation, and to weaponize the power of the attorney general’s office for partisan ends.

The NRA does indeed seem to compensate its senior executes rather splendidly, and some of those expenses ... would raise eyebrows at most similar organizations. But nonprofit executives do not take a vow of poverty, and many of them earn sums comparable to what executives in the for-profit sector make. You may be scandalized by it, but it isn’t a crime.

... The specific accusations of wrongdoing against NRA honcho Wayne LaPierre are that he spent NRA funds on himself and his family, setting up a front company in order to charge personal expenses to the NRA while camouflaging that fact from the organization and from the IRS. If that were found to be the case, then LaPierre would very likely be convicted of several crimes, both state and federal. But he has not even been charged with any crime at all.

Instead, New York State Attorney General Letitia James is only working to deliver on her campaign promise to ruin the NRA legally after decades of Democrats failing to beat the organization politically. This is part of a nationwide Democratic campaign ...

If Wayne LaPierre or other NRA executives have committed a crime, then indict them and present the evidence in a criminal court. The attempt to legally dissolve the NRA instead is pure political score-settling, and an assault on the First Amendment, the rule of law, and democracy itself.

...
 
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#18 ·
Unfortunately, you're right. The little "splinter" groups are either too small, or too radical to gain any public support.

NRA, good or bad, is the only group that they fear.

GOA, CCRKBA, GOAL etc might be able to influence small town council election, but they do not help elect U.S. senators.:(
 
#25 ·
You do realise the NAGR out spends the NRA in actual lobbying many years.

That NAGR was responsible of getting so called constitutional carry passed in most states including my own while the NRA did little to nothing.

The faster the NRA dies the faster more gun owners support actual pro 2A orgs instead of the finger in the wind NRA.
 
#19 · (Edited)
She is getting some flack from some in the Democratic Party!
Saying that was all they needed was a war declared on the NRA and the US Gun Owners right at election time. She certainly would have some of the extreme leftist followers on board with her no doubt. But they stated a lot of the "traditional" Democrats in the US have guns and many are infact members of the NRA and their Second Amendment position. If they have a problem with Wayne La Pierre so be it. But to attack the entire NRA organization and millions of gun owners, sportsmen and sportswomen (being you and I) may have been a sword in the back for the Democratic Party as a whole at this precise time?;)
And I hope it was! When will they ever learn that when you mess with the Bull you more than likely will get the HORN!:rolleyes:
03
 
#20 ·
She is getting some flack from some in the Democratic Party!
Saying that was all they needed was a war declared on the NRA and the US Gun Owners right at election time. She certainly would have some of the extreme leftist followers on board with her no doubt. But they stated a lot of the "traditional" Democrats in the US have guns and many are infact members of the NRA and their Second Amendment position. If they have a problem with Wayne La Pierre so be it. But to attack the entire NRA organization being you and I, may have been a stab in the back for the Democratic Party as a whole at this precise time?;)
Huh. Interesting.

Perhaps, just perhaps, some of them are starting to get it. As in, a mindless burn-it-to-the-ground approach is going to affect many people, and they're starting to appreciate that. Perhaps they can think of the larger picture ... that of the RKBA. Similar thinking with this mild resistance "those types" are showing might well help in defending the RKBA. After all, if penny-ante attorneys and AG's can go after organizations in their entirety, then they can easily turn that similar burn-it-to-the-ground approach on any entity or thing standing in their way.

Get skittish about having no NRA 'cause they're members? By the same thinking, those same sorts should get skittish about having no RKBA if the same people come attempting to burn IT to the ground, like the "leading" progressive Dem has stated in his essential platform. They're coming for the arms, the manufacturers who offend them, the lack of fascist controls on the RKBA in many states, etc. Of course, Biden would need to yank what's-his-name into the "fold" in order to be the chief BOR Burn Pile Czar. It's all coming, if we let it. They've said so in loud, almost impossible to ignore, words and deeds.
 
#22 ·
I've often wondered that.

A bit like why firearms manufacturers have remained in states like IL and CT, for example.

Sure makes you scratch your head.

Should have all moved to Texas or Kansas, or another similar state, years ago.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Been an NRA member since 1960. i don't want to see the organization go away. i would resume my contributions if WLP and his cronies would go away.

This action by the New York AG is not a civil lawsuit. It's a "you got caught with your pants down" compliance violation thing. Wayne La Pierre and his cronies, the actuary committee, the board members, some past board members etc. have already been deposed. The attorney general has their answers to the tough questions. Now it's near time for the lawyers to argue before the judge.

Is anyone here not aware of what precipitated this NRA dumpster fire?

After a crooked nearly 30 year relationship with Ackerman-McQueen, the NRA public relations contractor, WLP abruptly fired the agency and sued same; hiring a disrepute lawyer who had been barred from practicing before two courts. That law firm cost the NRA 24 million dollars in 10-11 months. Earlier this year La Pierre stated that lawsuits had cost the NRA 100 million dollars.

Ackerman-McQueen acted as a pass through agency funneling millions of dollars in charges by WLP and his cronies to the NRA for payment.

It all blew to hades at the NRA Convention in April, 2019. NRA President LTC North blew the whistle on Wayne La Pierre and his cronies. This caught the attention of the NY attorney general who began an investigation. Oliver North is referred to Dissident 1 in the Summons.

This action could have been prevented had the NRA board of directors fired La Pierre, Powell, Frazer and Phillips at the convention.

In the unlikely event that anyone wants to peruse the Summons, i recommend starting on page 165:

https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/summons_and_complaint_1.pdf
 
#43 · (Edited)
Well, I have never wanted to carry a freaking machine gun and I am darned glad every ******* (or hill Jake) with an attitude can't. And I have no problem with not carrying in a courthouse or post office. But those are about the only restrictions we have here ... at least that matter a whit to me. But the NRA doesn't have diddly squat to do with it here and never has.
 
#50 ·
I wonder: if citizens offered to give up their right to legal counsel and a public jury trial, what folks would offer in return?

"Give and get" -- a fool's hope. "They" will never accede to any such thing. As you point out, it's always give, give, give. As though liberties can be erased on a whim.

In truth, they're only given up when we cease exercising them.

Like the liberty run an organization for lobbying or whatever. If it's got corrupt act and actors, go after 'em, absolutely. But that hardly authorizes shutting down of a company because of some abuses by some there. This attorney's got a bee so far in her bonnet it's poking out her backside ... and showing her true agenda.
 
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#54 ·
Not surprisingly the state of New York has the most stringent regulations in the US when it comes to non-profits. But the New York agency overseeing non profits does distribute a booklet on compliance.

The NRA should have hired a non-profit compliance officer with authority to ensure compliance. However, that would have impeded the plundering of the organization.

i've perused the annual IRS 990 reports and the CHAR 500 reports submitted by the NRA. It appears the NRA did over charge the NRA Foundation in recent years.

Everyone here is familiar with the adage "you can't make this stuff up". That applies to the law firm the NRA hired. Lawyer William Brewer has been reprimanded for attempting to influence a jury, reprimanded by a federal judge, and a bunch of other stuff. As previously stated William Brewer is a supporter of numerous infamous anti-gunners, including Hillary Clinton.

Brewer is the son-in-law of the now deceased CEO of the agency the NRA is suing Ackerman-McQueen, Angus McQueen. Brewer is the brother-in law of the present CEO of Ackerman McQueen. :p:p
 
#61 ·
BTW: Constitutional carry has some drawbacks. Without a concealed carry permit there is no reciprocity with other states and no carry in gun free school zones.

https://www.concealedcarry.com/law/constitutional-carry-and-permitless-carry-in-depth-overview/
Depends on the states. On both counts.
The school thing is a fed reg which states are free to not enforce and ignore. Like my own state.
I can carry without a permit in almost any other state that has permitless carry .
 
#69 ·
I have seen this shift happen in many threads in many places. The real issue in New York is not guns. That's it. The real problem is the leadership that ran the NRA ship aground. The extent of the money problems is surfacing with the investigation in New York. Does the NRA being the most powerful 2A defender make misuse of funds by the leadership OK? I don't think it does. It is important to me to keep 2A concerns separate from the corruption. The answer is a good housecleaning.
 
#70 ·
The real problem is the leadership that ran the NRA ship aground ... It is important to me to keep 2A concerns separate from the corruption. The answer is a good housecleaning.
Yup.

If they can actually find the integrity and "grit" to clean that house, and to seriously get back to its roots and the primary cause, then they'll have a prayer of remaining intact and capable. Otherwise, I suspect they'll be buried as the floodgates open when people jump ship to the SAF, GOA and effective state-level groups like VCDL (in Virginia) and OFF (in Oregon).
 
#71 ·
Just suppose...: What if we could take a poll of former members of the NRA. Given some numbers what do you think if those people came back. The refugees from the corruption could make a difference. I think so. I would see the financial disaster and being a serious barrier to reviving the NRA. Also, does a seventy member board of directors flunk the smell test?

I would take a look at the lobbying. Was there some influence peddling or other unsavory stuff going on?

What would happen if new people came into officer in the NRA. An open agreement would be made with the membership. Transparency would be basic. What would a close look at political affiliations bring up? Did the NRA under the old regime hang a "kick me" sign on their back. I think a true conservative organization would be attractive to many former members. This post is about the organization and not the 2A.
 
#72 ·
^ If the "core" of the NRA took a severely firm stance and took all steps to really clean the house, they might well earn such a respite from current and former members, and might well attract millions more.

But not so long as they show one iota of interest in retaining such lack of transparency, lack of oversight, and such finagling and malfeasant people.

Time will tell, whether they've got the integrity to do such a "cleaning."

It's about time.

Their survival probably depends upon doing so, doing it effectively, and doing it now.

I, for one, might well rethink their prospects, if only they'd find their integrity again. And, when it comes right down to it, only if they'd swear, 'til death do they part, that they would never again engage in "silly buggers" with the Devil in our midst (those people in state and fed government who'd sell the RKBA to the butcher if given half a chance).
 
#73 ·
If they can actually find the integrity and "grit" to clean that house, and to seriously get back to its roots and the primary cause, then they'll have a prayer of remaining intact and capable.
The NRA seems to have suffered the same afflictions as some government administrations.
People in charge, either elected or appointed, using the power and funding of OPM (other peoples money) for their own selfish and nefarious purposes rather than fulfilling the responsibilities of the job (office) they hold.

The possibilities of "house-cleaning" depend upon finding and empowering persons of integrity and purpose with the expertise, desire, time and focus to do it.

It won't be an easy task.

The first question, the one that would determine the success of such a venture, would be:

"To whom does the responsibility fall to designate the new team?"

ellis
 
#75 ·
Ok.
Your argument comes right out of the moderate NRA playbook. .
My argument? I'm not arguing anything. I am just suggesting that when you take a statement, a commandment or an amendment and you try to hold it verbatim to suit YOUR argument you have to be careful it doesn't backfire.
No argument from me......just pointing out something you clearly gloss over in your 2nd amendment reference.
 
#79 ·
I read what is plainly written in the 2A.
The founders of a nation were quite capable of writing one clear sentence .

It means what it says. Theres no wiggle room in the 2A to excuse bans, bc, permits or limits . Unless of course one simply makes up things it does not say nor even imply.
 
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