I see now we are "defensive carry practitioners" according to the media.
And of course we must have " licensed concealed carry firearms ".
Everyone knows theres no other possible way to be armed.
“(Kevin) Smith [perp's brother] said Joseph [perp] walked up to them, pulled his gun out, pointed it at the female and smiled as he began shooting at the male,” the report said. “Kevin stated Joseph was the first to fire his weapon.”
“As Joseph Smith got closer, he turned his firearm toward Baldwin,” the report said. “When Joseph Smith turned his pistol toward Baldwin, Baldwin drew his 9 mm semiautomatic pistol from a holster on his waist and stepped north, taking cover behind a trash can.”
Police said Joseph Smith fired seven times at Baldwin, and Baldwin fired 11 times at Smith.
Baldwin, who has a concealed weapon permit, then took off with the woman. The woman, while crying, attempted to call 911 and said “we were just in a” and hung up, police said. The pair then drove to the house of Baldwin’s father, Bobby Baldwin, chairman and CEO of Drew Las Vegas, a Strip resort set to open in 2022!
There they contacted an attorney, who called 911.
so let's see here now...this earlier police version cited seems to differ a whole bunch from the yesterday's newspeek media accolade and doesn't seem to mention the shooter -- son of aristocratic Vegas Casino WHO LEFT THE SCENE OF A SHOOTING TO CALL DADDY'S FAMILY ATTORNEY!
Wait shades of mafia controlled casinos...never mind...
There quite few shooting incidents that took more than 2 rounds. 14 rounds of 45 acp and it took a head shot to finish it. There was another high round count shooting posted on the forum. Some will drop with a 22lr and some take a canon. Whatever it takes to stop the attack is what you use. When your life is on the line there no Excessive Force.
While whatever number of shots it takes is what it takes and has nothing to do with anything , the fact is the quickest way to turn a justified shoot into a murder charge is leave the scene and not call the situation in until you go home .
Interesting story. Twitter comments on it are predictable on both sides of the issue. Only thing missing is the race card, alluded to but not played. Don't know Nevada law, but here the brother could be possibly be charged as well if they both intended to commit a crime and a death resulted. Glad the good guy came out on top (at least up to this point).
When it comes to preserving life, my family comes first.
Al Wilson did a song called The Snake.
There is no difference between some lowlife coming after my family and a snake.
A point to remember before you break out the bandages.
Standard protocol for EMS is to wait for the police to secure the scene before attempting to render aid. If that's the way the professionals do it there's a reason for it. When I went to EMT training many many years ago the first thing they told me was "You're there to assist victims not become one."
If somebody just tried to kill me a minute ago why would I trust them not to try to kill me while I'm trying to render aid.
And it's not completely outside the realm of possibility that as you approach the person with the best possible intentions of assisting them they make some further aggressive move and you're forced to shoot again in your own self defense.
Can you imagine how that would look to the witnesses who don't know the whole story?
I could very realistically see all the witnesses telling the police that you put the guy down in the initial gun fight and then walked up and finished him off at close range.
If you want a realistic scenario that would turn them self-defense into murder that would be it.
Standard protocol for EMS is to wait for the police to secure the scene before attempting to render aid. If that's the way the professionals do it there's a reason for it. When I went to EMT training many many years ago the person they told me was "You're there to assist victims not become one."
If somebody just tried to kill me a minute ago why would I trust them not to try to kill me while I'm trying to render aid.
And it's not completely outside the realm of possibility that as you approach the person with the best possible intentions of assisting them they make some further aggressive move and you're forced to shoot again in your own self defense.
Can you imagine how that would look to the witnesses who don't know the whole story?
I could very realistically see all the witnesses telling the police that you put the guy down in the initial gun fight and then walked up and finished him off at close range.
If you want a realistic scenario that would turn them self-defense into murder that would be it.
I cannot speak to now but years ago when I worked for two county EMS services there was no " wait for the police" protocol or any such thing in training.
In fact I and my usual shift partner packaged and transported 2 gunshot victims before police arrived.
One where the shooter had shot the person living there and ran off into the woods.
That said, JMO but rendering aid to a person who has put me in a position to have to shoot them is foolish.
But that is JMO.
Fact remains that leaving out of concern over immediate threat or retaliation is reasonable ... anyone would be likely to consider that factor, if in the "thick" of it.
And, fact remains, that no amount of alternative spots to make a phone call erase the reasonableness of "heading home" ... likely, the one spot in his mind he could keep straight, after having been in the earlier violence. Happens with folks in car crashes and other, similar traumatic experiences.
That his post-trauma reactions and thought processes weren't letter-perfect as they wanted, that somehow alters him from victim to assailant?
It'll take him awhile but, if he's the victim and in the "right," and if he's got the wherewithal and time to fight it, I'm assuming the facts will come out in the end. Hopefully heads will roll, if it's shown they've corrupted the process and sought to frame the guy for all of this based on trumped-up baloney from their own imaginary preferences.
Still, good lessons for all, as to what can occur when "the law" gets involved. Isn't always a straightforward thing.
I do not know anything about this event but I did read the comments in this thread. As far as leaving the scene is concerned, I consider there to be many good reasons to leave the immediate area (of a shooting) before calling for help. Especially if the shooting occurred in a venue you do not control or when your ongoing safety may be in question.
On rendering aid:
I will certainly initiate a help response for the downed person as soon as practicable and reasonably safe to do so. I have many reservations about 1. offering a dangerous person further opportunity to attack me, trick me, lure me into a vulnerable position or to produce an unknown weapon. 2. Remaining of the scene when I do not know if his compatriots may immediately attack me upon seeing their downed friend, brother, cousin or whatever. I wont say that I would never aid the person, I am simply highlighting my concerns about doing so.
My first obligation will be to secure my own personal safety, everything else will be of secondary concern.
It's not personal hands-on first-aid care, no. But that's hardly the only thing that'll assist a person getting treatment.
I, too, am not so foolish as to imagine a would-be murderer has miraculously gone "straight" in the last minute or two and dropped his desire to kill me, simply because he's temporarily been sidetracked on his little "project." And so, I'll aid him by calling in the pro's who have at least a chance at doing something to stop the bleeding, address the vascular issues, etc.
Rendering aid will take care of itself as soon as you call 911 for a shooting. EMS will be dispatched as well as LE.
Whether any of that gets there in time to do diddly is another can of toilet paper.
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