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New 458 Socom build...

18K views 92 replies 9 participants last post by  Dallas53 
#1 · (Edited)
Ok as some of you know I've been lusting after a 458 Socom for a while now. Sniper03 and JonM turned me on to this incredible caliber while I was looking at the 45 Raptor. Here's the thread on that discussion if anyone is interested;
http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f25/big-bore-ar10-114329/

After much though and debate I'm building now. Finally decided that this deserves its own build thread as I'm going to build both upper and lower. The 458 needs some mods that make it different from a normal AR15, hence the thread.

Design:
I've decided on a light weight AR with a 16" barrel, free float handguards and flat top upper. Some parts have already been ordered, I'll link those in below. The gun is going to be used as a hog gun, with an emphasis on one shot take down power.

Ammo;
I'm also setting up to reload the ammo as this round has a hefty price tag. Dies, brass and an initial selection of bullets have been acquired about two months ago. I've also ordered two LEE lead molds, from Midway, for a 340 grain flat nose, and a 405 grain flat nose. Also got the factory crimp die for the round as its not in the basic 458 Socom die set. 100 rds of new brass, as I need somewhere to start...
 

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#2 · (Edited)
Ok I ordered the upper, an Aero Precision COP kit in black, with the mid length integrated handguard. Good deal on this thing, I posted it to Deals,deals,deals a while back when I first ordered the part.

https://aeroprecisionusa.com/cop-m4...172017-04-27+18:16:00&sc_eh=9b11de4500a25dfc1



Paid $299.99 with free shipping for it. I knew I was going to need to enlarge the ejection port, blend the feed ramp. But I thought seriously strong, one piece upper for mega caliber build, right? I like the way that a mid length handguard covers a carbine length gas system too.

Here's the drawing of what I need to do to the ejection port to clear that big fat cartridge easily; Line Font Office equipment Rectangle Parallel

Notice that the cover door still works and covers the opening. Also see the note about cutting the lower portion first, then working the upper side to finish dimensions.

Here's the feed ramp blend that Tromix recommends. Top is a standard unblended m4 feed ramp. Bottom is a blend into the big bore barrel extension. I'll be doing this to improve the feeding with large flat nose bullets.
 

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#3 ·
looking forward to your build! awesome round.

i have shot an AR in 458 socom. wow! i liked it! i don't really need one, but i may need to do one simply because i want one. if i did build one, it would be super basic and simple though.

subscribed to this thread.

good luck Mr. DW. this might be the inspiration i need to get started! :D
 
#4 · (Edited)
Next I've gotten a handful of small parts from JSE.




 
#5 · (Edited)
Next I've gotten a handful of small parts from JSE.

  • This Bolt Carrier Assembly has been precision machined from 8620 high-carbon steel to Semi Auto specifications and coated by Nickel Boron finish providing high-lubricity, a harder-than-chrome surface, and extreme corrosion resistance.
  • This is an assembled carrier with properly staked gas-key. It does not include bolt assembly, firing pin, cam pin, or firing pin retaining pin.

The barrel I'm ordering has a bolt face included for 458 Socom so that carrier, a cam pin, firing pin and firing pin retainer finish off the bolt group. Nickle Boron you ask, why? Largely because its cool and the price was right. I also ordered a steel 0.750 gas block and a carbine length gas tube with pin. I'm thinking along the lines of an Adams Arms low profile piston kit, but my finances won't stretch that far just now...

Going with the Lightweight 16.5" barrel from tromix,
  • SCM01-LW
  • Lightweight profile .850/.750/.730 1:14 twist Barrel/Bolt Combo $324

http://www.tromix.com/458-socom-parts-1.html

Price is right, and they are one of the originators of 458 Socom. They have it all worked out already. Nice people and they took the time to answer my questions quickly and thoroughly
. Barrel is carbine length gas, 0.750 at the block, threaded 5/8-24 and almost 6oz lighter than their other barrels. Nice. :D
 
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#6 ·
Looking forward to watching the progress.

I wanted a 458 SOCUM. Still didn't I think, but I went with the 450 Bushmaster instead. Why? Mostly because Ruger came out with the Anerican Ranch Rifle in 450 Bushmaster and I like the rifle. A secondary reason is that it's much cheaper to shoot, even for a reoader!

The reason for my build is much like yours. Feral hog hunting. I hunt with dogs and like the 5.56 with a TSX bullet, or the 25x45 Sharps with the TSX bullet. They kill hogs very well with a point blank shot into there boiler room. DRT. The 45-70 works , but not as fast. I'm curious how the 450 Bushmaster and 458 SOCOM will do as well. One of my catch dogs is no longer with us and I'm not thinking of replacing him, so I will not be trying to bring hogs back alive anymore. Plus I just like the bigger bullet and I will be shooting at range, not with the muzzle practically against the hog.

I have both of the Lee molds you have. They drop right at .457. they are the only Lee moulds I have that do that. Most drop a few thousands over what is specified. Of course all 3 of my 45/70 like .459 cast bullets. . I use the Lee .459 hollow base 405 grain bullet, but usually hunt with the Speer 400 grain flat point.

Why doing on the 45/70? Because the 45/70 and the 458 SOCOM share common bullets and is the 45/70 for the AR platform as far as I an concerned. The 450 Bushmaster uses pistol bullets. Wish Ruger would have brought out the 458 SOCOM instead!
 
#7 · (Edited)
Greg you just pretty much summed up the reasoning behind the 458 socom vs the 45 raptor that I was originally looking at. Take a look at the older thread that I linked in the first post. It all comes down to pistol bullets vs rifle bullets. Especially take a look at Sniper03's buffalo he killed with the 458 socom. That illustrates why you really need a rifle bullet! Its all down to bullet design.

I shoot hog quite a bit. I've got a buddy with a row of stitches all the way from wrist to elbow from a 223 rd that didn't get the job done. Read the story at the end of the older thread. Got me on the bigger is better bandwagon, at least for hogs and other dangerous game. My first upgrade was 6.8 spc2, great gun and a super hog killer. The second build was a 7" barreled 300 blackout AR pistol. Nice close support firepower. I've been thinking mega caliber AR's for some time. That's 450 bushmaster, 458 socom and 50 beowulf. There are a few others but they are Wildcats and none offer much improvement over those three.

450 bushmaster didn't make the cut because of the pistol bullet thing, its 0.451 not 0.458. 50 beowulf, just not many choices in a 50 cal bullet. Its also largely a proprietary cartridge still. Bill Alexander of Alexander Arms doesn't want to share his baby. That leaves 458 socom as the clear winner. Its not perfect, the rebated rim and a stepped shoulder cartridge design are negatives in my book, but it has a true .458 bullet diameter. This allows use of all the really great, and proven 45/70 and 458 winchester rifle bullets. Lots of selection, and the bullets are all proven for their purpose. The new round is also almost identical ballistically to the old 45/70, a proven buffalo rifle. That's the key in my view.
 

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#8 · (Edited)
DW

I am excited about your build! Can't wait to see it and get a Range Report. But when it comes to pigs! I refer to the 458 SOCOM as the HAMMER!
I had the pleasure of shooting a 458 SOCOM in Full Auto in November. I could not believe how controllable it was. Literally a pleasure to shoot!!
It also has become one of my closet gun for home self defense should the Zombies show up day or night. I have some 325 gr. Polymer Tipped Bullets from TGD for it. Living in the mountains you have to be your own Defense Force for at least 15-20 minutes! ;) Of course you can always count on the neighbors to be a flanking force should the Zombies come!:)
Regarding reloading a friend of mine who was just featured in one of the Shooting Magazines for his company loading the most accurate 458 SOCOM ammunition tested in the test. TGD Ammunition Company of Colona Illinois. But he advised me that if the Reloader has problems with seating the bullets regarding crushing the casings with the 458 SOCOM Seating Die. He suggests using a 45 cal. Long Colt or 45 Auto Pistol Expander Die to open up the case mouth slightly before using the regular seating die from the 458 SOCOM Set.
Keep us informed and the parts look Great as well!

03
 
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#9 · (Edited)
Thats good info Sniper03. I haven't' started to load up my cases yet. If I run into problems with the seating I'll try the pistol die trick.:)

I've got some of the Hornady 325 grain FTX poly tips, they were one of the most recommended bullets for the caliber. Also supposed to be very easy feeding because of the tip shape. Those 300 grain Hornady hollow points were the #2 on that same list. Speer Deep Curl's are on my list to try. Along with the two cast bullets that I got the LEE molds for. Those two are more of a lower cost practice ammo alternative than a hunting round. But I will be running some penetration tests with the lead bullets. I've been pleasantly surprised by cast bullets before. Especially big, heavy lead chunks at moderate velocities. My 300 Blackout, cast lead 230's were an eye opener...



https://www.midwayusa.com/product/5...in-hollow-point-flat-base-lead-free-box-of-20

I'd love to try some of these TSX bullets but at $20+ a box of 20 they are out of my budget for the near future. $1.09 a bullet for components seems a bit excessive.

looking forward to your build! awesome round.

i have shot an AR in 458 socom. wow! i liked it! i don't really need one, but i may need to do one simply because i want one. if i did build one, it would be super basic and simple though.

subscribed to this thread.

good luck Mr. DW. this might be the inspiration i need to get started! :D
Dallas, its not about need. I've already got guns to handle pretty much any conceivable hunting situation in the 6.8 SPC and 300 Blackout. Its that I've wanted one. :D
 
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#10 ·
DW
Please go back and read my "correction" made regarding the 45 LC AND 45 AUTO Expander Die.

03
 
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#11 · (Edited)
DW
Please go back and read my "correction" made regarding the 45 LC AND 45 AUTO Expander Die.

03
Seen and noted, sir! I've got a universal powder through case expanding die from Lee that I'll try also. I'll be weighing charges for these rounds, individually on the electronic Lyman gen 6 powder scale I bought last year. Dropping them through a funnel inserted at the top of this die makes it easy as it expands the case mouth at the same station. Then seat the bullet with the next operation.

I did add their LEE factory crimp die for the 458 socom, as its not included in the base 458 socom die set for some unexplained reason. I guess Lee rushed the dies out and then designed the crimp die later.
 
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#12 ·
I shoot hog quite a bit. I've got a buddy with a row of stitches all the way from wrist to elbow from a 223 rd that didn't get the job done. Read the story at the end of the older thread. Got me on the bigger is better bandwagon, at least for hogs and other dangerous game. My first upgrade was 6.8 spc2, great gun and a super hog killer. The second build was a 7" barreled 300 blackout AR pistol. Nice close support firepower. I've been thinking mega caliber AR's for some time. That's 450 bushmaster, 458 socom and 50 beowulf. There are a few others but they are Wildcats and none offer much improvement over those three.

450 bushmaster didn't make the cut because of the pistol bullet thing,

....The new round is also almost identical ballistically to the old 45/70, a proven buffalo rifle. That's the key in my view.
Don't misunderstand What i'm saying. I am a proponent of bigger is better also. But I have found that at point blank range, sometimes even touching the hog, a well constructed bullet traveling at 3000 fps or more will take the fight out of a hog right now when put in the boiler room. The 400 grain .458 bullet I use in the guide gun often leaves them with a few seconds of fight left. I think it's a hydrostatic thing????

Anyway I hunt with dogs. Redbones to strike and bay, Pit Bulls to catch. Our normal thing is to truss the hog while the catch dogs hold them. Take them home and pen them for a while before slaughtering them. If things go south I want the hog dead now, not 45 seconds from now as it could mean the death of the dog. Head shots are not possible with dogs holding on to the hogs ears. That fast bullet in the boiler room just takes the fight out of the hog, it just quivers and expires.

If I decide not to turn the catch dogs loose, usually because the hog is too big, I never shoot them with the 223. Usually the 45 Colt loaded to magnum velocities. Of course now I an out to 10 to maybe 25 yards.

I built a 300 blackout for hogs because it was supposed to be the best. No, it's not. At point blank range it dosent work near as well as the 223. It is superior at range though, still not as good as the 45/70.

I will not try and say I expect the 450 Bushmaster to equal the 458 SOCOM, because of the pistol bullets. It's not too late for me to change though. I'll be watching this thread closely!
 
#13 · (Edited)
Don't misunderstand What i'm saying. I am a proponent of bigger is better also. But I have found that at point blank range, sometimes even touching the hog, a well constructed bullet traveling at 3000 fps or more will take the fight out of a hog right now when put in the boiler room. The 400 grain .458 bullet I use in the guide gun often leaves them with a few seconds of fight left. I think it's a hydrostatic thing????

Anyway I hunt with dogs. Redbones to strike and bay, Pit Bulls to catch. Our normal thing is to truss the hog while the catch dogs hold them. Take them home and pen them for a while before slaughtering them. If things go south I want the hog dead now, not 45 seconds from now as it could mean the death of the dog. Head shots are not possible with dogs holding on to the hogs ears. That fast bullet in the boiler room just takes the fight out of the hog, it just quivers and expires.

If I decide not to turn the catch dogs loose, usually because the hog is too big, I never shoot them with the 223. Usually the 45 Colt loaded to magnum velocities. Of course now I an out to 10 to maybe 25 yards.

I built a 300 blackout for hogs because it was supposed to be the best. No, it's not. At point blank range it dosent work near as well as the 223. It is superior at range though, still not as good as the 45/70.

I will not try and say I expect the 450 Bushmaster to equal the 458 SOCOM, because of the pistol bullets. It's not too late for me to change though. I'll be watching this thread closely!
I completely agree and understand sir. I normally hunt hogs over a feeder at night, but I do occasionally chase them with dogs. We don't use catch dogs, all we do is run them until we can force them to turn and fight, then we shoot. Head shots are normal for "turn at bay" style hunting, at least for us. We don't have dogs trying to hang onto the hogs, just run them. We process and donate as much of the meat as we can not use ourselves.

That's how my friends injury happened. What looked like a good shot to the head, straight on so no obvious exit wound. Large bloody wound, 223 62gr, hog went down instantly. We moved in a couple minutes later and started to take post hunt pics. This was a ~500 lbs trophy boar with 6 inch tusks. My buddy was excited as this was easily the largest boar he'd ever killed. He was standing, straddling it with his gun against its shoulder when it woke up.

Post mortem I did on that hog showed almost 2" thickness of cranial bone at the forehead. The bullet penetrated a little more than half way and ricocheted back out. Must have just knocked the hog unconscious. What looked like a good shot from my angle was just a glancing blow. That cured me of 223 for hogs for good, and all of them get a coupe de gras from close range now. Sometimes several shots, as a head shot isn't wasting meat. After that incident I rank hogs as "dangerous game".

The 300 Blackout at close range works best with the heaviest bullets. I've found that a 230 grain cast slug I load always does the job. Its actually listed as a sub sonic. Way better than my 44mag, largely because I have 30rd magazines in the AR pistol. Which 300 Blackout round were you using that had penetration problems? Was it one of the lighter 120-145 grain supersonic rounds?

Thinking that maybe to 300 Blackout is a little lacking in velocity to properly expand a bullet originally designed for a 308-30/06 class cartridge. This might be a case of too much jacket thickness for the velocity. Bullet doesn't expand, so not a bunch of energy transfer and damage. This leaves a narrow wound channel. The bullet then passes through without doing as much damage as it should of, maybe. Just my thoughts...
 
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#14 ·
The 300 BLK was the 208 grain A Max. It penetrated well, just didn't have good terminal effect unless you could hit the CNS. This bullet barely expanded. Just punched right through.

I like the Barnes 110 grain blacktip in the 300 BLK. I have a 16" carbine length I dedicated for supersonic. I was using an Sac branded Handi Rifle for subsonic. I really like the rifle, but wanted a quicker follow up shot. I just built a pistol length 300 BLK.

One of the first hogs I saw killed was with a 44 magnum Ruger carbine. Took all 4 shots to kill it. The 180 grain following bullet was flattening out on the gristle plate and not penetrating. Wrong bullet!

I just bought a 44 magnum pistol to replace my 45 Colt. Hope it does well.
 
#15 · (Edited)
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/93...n-300-aac-blackout-tumble-lube-5-ogive-radius

Greg, here's the bullet I'm talking about. I cast is about 12 brinell hardness and it will expand to twice its diameter while still retaining most of its weight. I tumble lube in liquid alox, let it dry a day or two and load them to subsonic levels. I shot it into solid ash hardwood out of a 7" barreled pistol, maybe 10 feet away, and got the results I show below. I did say pleasantly surprised by cast bullets, didn't I? :D

Wish I still had the info on weight retention, but its been over a year ago since I did those tests. It was high percentage though %70+. I've been using it for hogs since. Maybe 10-15 kills with that round since that test. 3-1/2" of hardwood seems to equal pass through on both shoulder blades on a hog. Or complete devistation in a head shot.

I'm using the 220 AMax data with H110, it could definitely be bumped a little hotter. Its reduced to keep the round subsonic. I shot the last three rounds I had loaded for that test. Two flowed together, same hole hit, ~4" penetration. The other is the mushroom at 3.5"...
 

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#17 · (Edited)
I was actually testing bullet expansion on that round, Found I just couldn't get it to stop. I blew through that line of water jugs and kept on going. retaped the holes and tried several times to recover an intact bullet. It finally took that piece of firewood to stop one. That's what made me consider it for a hunting bullet.

Ring on the nose is from a seater die that didn't match the nose shape too well. I fixed it later with a spare. Filled it with JB weld putty and siliconed a bullet up so it wouldn't stick. Formed a custom fit seater stem for the die. It's held up for several hundred rounds of reloads. Later bullets stayed smooth and pristine when I seated them.

Nice. I never did get as far as the powder coating stage. I always wanted to try it. But I got distracted by other projects and it went to the back burner. I had two other Lee 309 molds bought for tests I havn't had time to run yet 170 grain and 140 grain if I remember right, gas check bases. I was thinking of ~1700 fps with those two. Should be easy for the cartridge.
 

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#18 ·
You really have me second guessing myself. I did a bunch of reading on the 458 SOCOM, 450 Bushmaster, and 50 Beowulf. I chose the 458 SOCOM as the best of the bunch. I literally changed my mind when Ruger announced the 450 Bushmaster in their American Ranch Rifle. I intend to replace my Handi Rifles with Ruger Ranch Rifles and the 450 Bushmaster kind of rounded out the group. (If Ruger would only relase their American Predator Rifle in 25/45 Sharps I would be happy!)

I have the Aero Precision stripped upper, of course it has .458 on it, :( and the Tromix 450 Bushmaster barrel and bolt. That's as far as my build has gotten. I think the Bushmaster is the better round. Wishing Ruger would have released the 458 SOCOM instead!
 
#19 · (Edited)
Ok back on subject.

I'm looking at the low profile Adams Arms style piston kit for this build. I've already got a standard DI gas block, bolt carrier and tube ordered if they won't fit. If I don't use them here, I've got other builds they can go into.

I talked with Tromix already and they said the Piston kit works on their barrels, but might need the gas port opened up to operate. This is not a deal breaker. But I'm on my own if I need to start drilling the barrel.

Second researching the way the kit works with the upper receiver. This may be a problem. Adams uses a spring against the front of the milspec barrel nut to return the piston to battery. Seems this is a common problem with the Adams Arms kits, they don't play well with aftermarket barrel nuts on free float handguards. I'm a bit confused by this as most of the people who want to tech out a gun to piston operated, also want a free float handguard. Not the best design on Adams part. Guess that's why their kits have a handguard included. When you find out what you wanted won't fit, you can just use theirs, see the video for details...

https://youtu.be/_2nt6MZlBX0
https://youtu.be/pNYK_8oFcss

Problem is that the COP upper does not use a standard barrel nut because of its one piece upper/handguard configuration. I've email Aero Precision asking about this, waiting for them to get back to me. I may be able to remachine a work around. Several easy ways to do this. All of them involve cutting on the piston kit, so I won't need to butcher that expensive COP upper. :D

Online sources said the Syrac Piston works just fine, problem is that the company went under, so no more parts, even if I could find one for sale. Build may just end up being DI. Its cheaper, works well without mods and would be the fastest way to finish the project.

To make it more confusing I just found a great deal on the piston parts from Numrich, $173.80 for all the needed pieces. Pics below, not this is not the newest gen piston. Its the older pin in place kit the services were evaluating. This is not a kit with instructions, just bare parts, so you need to understand how it works before you buy them. They are non-returnable and have no instructions included. More work, cool tech, and half the price of the Adams lopro kit. I am trying to tech this gun as far as it will go, but I have a real world budget on this one.

Oh and if anyone forgot the handguards are mid length and the gas system of the barrel is carbine. The gas block will be completely hidden under the handguards, so fit and clearance for free float is crucial.

Decisions, decisions......

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/





Update:
A few hours of thinking about it, and online research, and I pulled the trigger on everything but the bolt carrier. I need the gas block and piston to test fit with. If it doesn't fit I have another build I can use it on. So no foul, either way. I'll need to order the carrier later. Money is too tight right now and its the most expensive piece...
 
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#20 ·
You really have me second guessing myself. I did a bunch of reading on the 458 SOCOM, 450 Bushmaster, and 50 Beowulf. I chose the 458 SOCOM as the best of the bunch. I literally changed my mind when Ruger announced the 450 Bushmaster in their American Ranch Rifle. I intend to replace my Handi Rifles with Ruger Ranch Rifles and the 450 Bushmaster kind of rounded out the group. (If Ruger would only relase their American Predator Rifle in 25/45 Sharps I would be happy!)

I have the Aero Precision stripped upper, of course it has .458 on it, :( and the Tromix 450 Bushmaster barrel and bolt. That's as far as my build has gotten. I think the Bushmaster is the better round. Wishing Ruger would have released the 458 SOCOM instead!
Correction to my post. I think the SOCOM is the better round. Not the Bushmaster. The only way I think the Bushmaster bests the SOCOM is it's cheaper to reload for.
 
#21 ·
I had a 458 SOCOM for several years. It's a very fun cartridge to shoot.
My go to bullets for hunting were the Nosler 300 gr Silvertip's and the Hornady 325 gr FTX. They worked very well for me.
H110 and Lil Gun powders worked best for me, and also Reloader 7.

The only negative I have with the 458 SOCOM is the limited useful range. Past 100 yards, the bullet is falling out of the sky.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I understand about the ballistic limits, the limited range is actually a plus for me. A lot of the hog hunting I do is on cattle range. In and among cattle herds.The fact that 458 Socom drops off like it does means its less likely to shoot past my target and "ricochet hit" a cow a field or two over. I'm careful of my back area when I shoot, but at night, spotlighting or nightvision you don't have much field depth and can not see very far. A bullet that "goes to ground" and buries or breaks up is inherently safer. A back area that was clear as the sun goes down doesn't mean the cattle didn't wander in after dark. :(

I looked ito 375 Socom from Tromix pretty hard. Same case necked to .375, lighter caliber bullet, much flatter shooting and longer ranged. Its still a hard hitting round but the increase in range wasn't a plus for me in my application. I'm a varmint hunter and more speed is always better, right? Just not in this application. Also much newer and more limited on ammo availability. Its pretty much only Tromix at this time, plus a couple small ammo suppliers.

I'm thinking of starting with h110/296 as I keep these on hand for my 44 Mag already. I've got Reloader 7 on the shelf also, its not one of my common powders, but I bought a couple bottles during the "ammo drought". So I should be good on powders. Load data shows them to be pretty good for the cartridge. But only time will tell what the rifle likes best. I'll add the silver tips to my bullet try list, I've already got the FTX's. Did you try any of the magnum primers for the load, or just the standard LP? I've heard different things online from different sources. Some swear by the magnums as the temperatures drop. Claim is more even velocity spread in cold temps. Makes sense but I'm new to the cartridge and its idiosyncrasies.
 
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#23 ·
Just a thought, or maybe more accurately, an observation. The 300 grain hollow point will upset very well. The cast bullets you mentioned will ricochet pretty badly, they like to bounce around pretty good until they run out of steam. I cast mine out of wheel weights and shoot them out of a 45/70. I don't know about the 325 FTX, never shot it.

I understand your concerns. I shoot groundhogs in mountain meadows. Cows are commonly present. I am careful to choose bullets that come apart on impact and will not exit whistle pigs. The farmers frown on cows with broke legs from whistle pig burrows, but frown even harder about shot cows!
 
#24 · (Edited)
Greg, the area I hunt is lots of little bluffs and rock outcroppings between small hills. All covered in low mesquite brush. Broken terrain would be the best way to describe it. I can't really use a true disintegrating varmint bullet because of how tough it is to take a hog down. You need mass and penetration to kill them effectively. But the terrain will stop a skipping bullet pretty quickly. My best alternative is a cartridge with a lower velocity that will go to ground and bury, rather than skip for miles like a 223 FMJ would.

That is balanced by the need for a high penetration round to kill humanely. The 300 HP has a track record of modest penetration on hogs at longer ranges. It upsets fine but it doesn't penetrate deeply all the time as the range increases. Has real problems penetrating bone. The shot needs to be perfect at 100-125 yards with one to take a hog down. The 325 grain FTX has a much better penetration out past 100 yards. It has a thicker jacket and more pointed nose for better B.C. Tends to be much flatter shooting because of it.

That said both work fine in close shooting, under 50' it really doesn't seem to matter what you shoot a hog with, if your on target he drops at these ranges. I'll be using this gun largely for night hunts with spotlight or NV. So moderate range 50 to 100 yards is what I'm looking at maybe 80% of he time. The other 20% is the problem. The longer shots don't loose much velocity at ranges up to 200 yards, but the drops get pretty steep.

50-100 yards a problem range for some of the bullets, not enough velocity to expand the really thick jacket big game bullets and too much for the super thin jacket stuff. I'll be taking a really serious look at lead bullets on this round. Gas checked lead should be perfect for what I want it to do and 300-400 grains will be on the dirts past 500 yards.

I'm mainly thinking about the 300 HP as a self defense round when the gun is setting in my closet. Up close that round makes big nasty holes in targets with lots of hydrostatic shock. I shoot a similar 310 grain HP out of my 44mag. Its a close range bear round. Lots of recoil but lots of energy on the target also. its the LEE 310 grain mold remachined with a 60 deg HP plug added to the front, like the lyman devastator bullets. Opens up like a silver dollar...
 
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#25 · (Edited)
The Hornady 300 grain hollow point performs exactly like you describe. The 400 grain Speer flat point does similarly, just a bit more weight for a bit more penetration. I don't use either of these for hogs. I do like the Speer 350 grain round nose. It's a bit harder bullet. The first game animal I shot with one was a deer at about 60 yards. Perfect broadside shot. Just missed the heart. The deer ran about 40 yards and laid down. Finger sized hole in, finger sized hole out. Obviously I did not recover the bullet but it appears not to have expanded at all.

On the other hand, it is my favorite for hogs. Penetrates the gristle plate well where I truly believe the gristle plate would slow down the 300 grain HP and the 400 grain soft point. They could very easily flatten out on the gristle plate and penetration would suffer. I know you do head shots, but a big hogs skull is as hard as the gristle plate!

I just loaded up 22 more of the 350 grain projectiles. I am about out, less than 20 left. I might try some of 325's that you are talking about.

I think the comparison is legit between these 2 cartridges because they share the same bullets at approximately the same velocities. I shoot my 30 inch 45/70 fairly regularly at 500 yards, less co at 1000 yards, but I do when I get the chance. They are very capable but the mid range trajectory is, ...well let's just say pretty high! I believe any of the bullets sighted in at 50 to 75 yards would be pretty much done by 500 yards, but they will bounce around a bit to get there!
 
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