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22lr sleeve??

5K views 26 replies 11 participants last post by  SGWGunsmith 
#1 ·
i am asking for friend who just called me, he just got a remington 22lr. from what he told me its an older gun, when he shoots it the gun sprays powder back in his face. no gunsmiths close by but our local shop told him to sleeve it. he asked about making it a magnum but the way its made he was told that it couldn't be done and sleeve was his only choice. where can he buy these?, or is it gunsmith only job? i had no clue so i thought i would ask, thanks for any help.
 
#2 ·
Brownell's sells liners, or "sleeves" as you are calling them. from everything i have gathered about them, it takes a special drill bit and reamer to rebore the bore of the rifle to install one and they have to have the chamber recut as well. it seems to be a gunsmith type job requiring special tools to do one. i do not think it's a DIYer type project from what little i have read about the procedure to do the job.
 
#9 ·
1st of all make sure it is a 22lr. It might not be. Are the cases blown out or ruptured? If the answer is yes then it could be a 22 Remington Special which is identical to the 22 WRF NOT Magnum WRM. This is probably why 303tom wants to know which Remington.
 
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#11 ·
A sleeve is used when the rifling is worn out. Not sure how a worn out barrel would allow powder particles to reach your face. Something else is the culprit here. Would help to know what model of Remington, and what type of action is in question.
If the Remington .22 in question is a Model 550 autoloader, they were well known to pepper the shooter's face with unburnt,or partially burnt powder, especially if the shooter was left handed.
My Dad gave me one in the late 60's as my first .22, and it stung my face with fine particles ever time I shot it.
Remington added a "blast shield" right behind the bolt when they came out with the next generation 552 Speedmaster to take care of that problem.
 
#12 ·
I've "lined" quite a few older .22 rimfire rifles, and even converted a Steven Favorite from .25 Stevens to .22 rimfire with a new rifled liner. Here are a few things to consider:
.22 rimfire bores have a groove diameter to bore diameter of 0.0020 to 0.0025 of an inch. Many of the older .22 rimfire rifles were used with Lesmok .22 rimfire gunpowder. Many did not have their bores cleaned after shooting, so the Lesmok gunpowder, which was a mixture of smokeless powder and black powder would rot away at the shallow rifling in these early rifles. There's no other choice but to replace the barrel or, install a liner.
Now, if this is something you'd like to get involved with, here are some current prices for tooling and liners. Redman liners cost from $36.00 to $89.00 depending on the length you need. Twist rate is 1:16 for .22 Long Rifle and 1:20 for the .22 Short. The short liner drill ( for pistols & revolvers ) costs $52.00. The longer liner drill for rifle barrels runs $108.00. So, you will need a new liner and then a drill to remove the rotted away rifling and then provide a bore diameter for the liner.

BTW, I did a Colt revolver Police Positive several years ago that had a bulged barrel from old .22 ammunition where by the bullet got stuck in the barrel. After I drilled out the barrel, I got a brain fart to try some Federal crimped .22 rimfire shot loads in that now "smooth bore". Man, what a great chipmunk blaster. I got 1 foot diameter, full patterns at 15 feet with that smooth bore, rather than with a rifled bore where the shot would swirl and come out of the muzzle like a donut shape that would go completely around the chipmunk. I did finally install the liner so no black helicopters would land nearby.

OK, now we have the liner and drill for the project, next we'll need a chamber reamer for the cartridge you want that will match the rifling you decided upon. .22 Long Rifle or .22 Short. Chamber reamers cost around $50.00 for the .22 rimfire, but you only need to get a finishing reamer to get the job done. Here's a project I did not too long ago:



This is a Stevens Favorite that was kept on a rafter in a cow barn. The cow urine was pretty hard on the bluing, and the brass blade front sight got bent somehow.

This is that very same rifle barrel after it was lined, rust blued and the front sight straightened out. If you look very closely you can barely see the outline of the barrel liner.

 
#14 ·
"How much would a job like this cost, out-the door?"

Cost always depends on what all you'd want done. And then, there are some rifles, like the Remington Model 12 pump guns and the way the breech end of the barrel is machined, that make it a much better choice to replace the barrel. Flat breech faces lend themselves much better to relining.
 
#16 ·
"Say the job goes well, no problems, how much ?"

Well, the job going "really well" would be an appreciative happenstance. Seems there's always some "quirk" involved that was unforeseen.
Once it's understood that the barrel needs to be removed from the action, and the liner hole is drilled from each end to guarantee that the new bore meets in the middle, the liner is then soldered, or bonded, in place and then crowned at the muzzle. The breech end of the liner is then turned flush with the rear end of the barrel face, and then the chamber is reamed. Most often, a new extractor groove will need to be cut.
Those are the basic elements involving relining a .22 rimfire bore. If I was forced into remitting a starting price for said work, including the cost of the liner: I'd guestimate that cost to be around $350.00 at the per hour labor prices at these current times.

Let me add this to the mix. Restoring older .22 rimfire guns is one of those projects that I relish doing, but there are many that I turn down. Why? Because what seems precious as being an alleged "heirloom", or an antique firearm that grandpa used back in 1902, may not justify the cost involved. Now, I have restored some rifles that were originally purchased at some very low cost, mainly in the various Stevens falling block .22 rifles, and some of the older Winchesters that will NEVER command the cost involved with the restoration if they were to be sold. These jobs were taken on after several consultations with customers who were not dissuaded by the costs involved. In many projects the time frame was not projected, but, depending on what the requirements entailed, sometimes 75% of the cost was required before any work is started. Getting burned on a few projects has caused some very caustic feelings about sincerity, and I feel my time investment and honest approach should require some compensation.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Are you sure you're a gunsmith, and not a politician? Because throughout two posts, you've said a whole lot of words, and still not given a real answer to the first inquiry. (So, I'll ask for a THIRD time.) You should have some idea, should you not, as to the general average approximate price. After all, you've done the job "quite a few times", is putting an approximate dollar value upon this job so difficult?

How much have you generally charged people in the past?
 
#19 ·
"Those are the basic elements involving relining a .22 rimfire bore. If I was forced into remitting a starting price for said work, including the cost of the liner: I'd guestimate that cost to be around $350.00 at the per hour labor prices at these current times."

Geez, I just tried to layout what was all involved just in case anyone would want to do the job themselves. I'll know now, to avoid any of your inquiries.
 
#22 ·
Times have certainly changed. When I was gunsmithing I re-lined many 22 rifles. If I remember correctly at that time I charged around a hundred dollars but that was many years ago.
Once I had to call Redman and special order a long (34") 22 liner for a schuetzen rifle. I talked directly to Redman and we ended up talking for awhile about rifles.
 
#25 ·
Times have certainly changed. When I was gunsmithing I re-lined many 22 rifles. If I remember correctly at that time I charged around a hundred dollars but that was many years ago.
Once I had to call Redman and special order a long (34") 22 liner for a schuetzen rifle. I talked directly to Redman and we ended up talking for awhile about rifles.
I'll bet that liner wasn't all that cheap even back then. Brownells' does stock .22 rimfire barrel lines at 25-inches for around $36.00 and then a 30-inch liner for around $89.00, so I can imagine that 34-inch liner was quite pricey.
 
#23 ·
"not cheap for sure. but some people are willing to spend more in doing the repair that costs more than the gun is worth, simply for sentimental reasons."

That statement is completely correct, and it's most often the exact situation. I firmly agree, a new rifle would be far less costly, but in those instances where sentiment takes over, the decision is pretty much final.
Currently I have a Winchester 1890 pump, .22 Short caliber rifle, prepped and ready to install the liner. I had a long discussion with the two guys who wanted this done for their Dad, as it was his gun when he was a kid. They understand what's involved, and I assured them that nothing other than what we discussed, and agreed upon, would be done without further consultation with them.
 
#24 ·
"not cheap for sure. but some people are willing to spend more in doing the repair that costs more than the gun is worth, simply for sentimental reasons."

That statement is completely correct, and it's most often the exact situation. I firmly agree, a new rifle would be far less costly, but in those instances where sentiment takes over, the decision is pretty much final.
Currently I have a Winchester 1890 pump, .22 Short caliber rifle, prepped and ready to install the liner. I had a long discussion with the two guys who wanted this done for their Dad, as it was his gun when he was a kid. They understand what's involved, and I assured them that nothing other than what we discussed, and agreed upon, would be done without further consultation with them.
IMO, due to the costs involved, i would leave it for guns that carried sentimental value, or were old enough that they would be too costly to replace.

and since there are plenty of new and used 22 rim-fire rifles out in the market for sale, many of them can be bought for less that $200, it just only makes sense to reline certain gun to me, due t the costs and time involved.

is it worth relining the barrel of an old rim-fire rifle, or pistol? personally, i think that is a question only the person with the firearm can answer for themselves. if a person is keeping a gun for purely sentimental reasons, then they need to decide if they are planning on shooting the gun, or whether it might be better to just clean the gun, oil it, and make a wall hanger out of it.
 
#27 ·
Hey, I understand all of what you say. Any restoration of these older .22 rimfire rifles are a questionable endeavor, but when it's agreeable, I find the outcome is very much appreciated. Personally, if I were to ever gain a Winchester High-Wall whereby the rifling has been obliterated by Lesmok gunpowder, I would still consider getting that rifle back to original as best I could possibly do. That means, from my perspective, that I would rust blue it, as to how it was done back then, refinish the stock in the same manner originally done, repair any of the buggered up screw slots, or make new screws and then take it to the range for shooting where all the "boomers" would gloat over that very neat rifle and the effort gone into it.
 
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