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Robber shot by EVERY customer in the store

9K views 87 replies 36 participants last post by  Rifling82 
#1 ·
#3 ·
it would be a fine and wonderful thing if someone made a web page with a link to every self defense shooting in 2018. A running tally.

If you are about to volunteer me, since I spoke up - I had a web page, about the second amendment. Hacked a dozen times, hacked before it was made public, people concluded through some convoluted thought process that I am having sex with their mothers - it's a miserable and thankless task. So, No, thank you.
 
#12 ·
"Do not gloat when your enemy falls."

I don't think anyone is necessarily gloating, but the temptation is certainly there.
it really disturbs me when people think making jokes or finding humor in someone getting killed, even if they are the bad guy, is funny.

anytime the bad guy dies instead of the good guy is a desirable outcome, but finding pleasure or joy in someone being killed is pretty sick and twisted.

kind of wonder what people on the outside looking in think when they read such things? and some wonder why some of the anti-gun proponents think gun owners are a blood-thirsty group of people. hmmmm......could be some of you provide them with that evidence to support their viewpoints.
 
#9 ·
Look at that more closely. The "robber" has been well ventilated but he is not leaking on the floor. I call it fake.
 
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#17 ·
Do you really think that a stakeout would be staged as that was with three guys, spread out around the counter playing with themselves? If I were robbing a store I would have smelled that rat as soon as I opened the door, bought my cigarettes and moved on to the alternative location. Everything about this video screams U-tube sensational material. We have seen these same types of videos before.
 
#19 · (Edited)
For one, it's someone's child or brother. Second, we've all made mistakes to varying degrees - maybe not felony level mistakes - but bad errors nonetheless. I have no trouble with legitimate self-defense - it's wrong to stick our noses in the air like we're SOOO much better.

I can't speak for anyone else. If I was living in a ghetto, no father, no education, no job, and mouths to feed - stealing might seem like a "good" way to feed my kids. I respect the officers defending themselves and still feel bad the kid made a disastrous choice.
 
#22 ·
Did they at least ID the body, so next of kin could receive his Darwin Award for him?

Now, before anyone decides to jump on my $#!+ for posting that, I AM that guy. i would, and often do, fight to keep from laughing at funerals, and yes, I have told members of the grieving family that, had their ___ been a bit less of a dumb @$$, he just might still be with them.

And that is my polite and filtered version.

that does not mean that I don't take something, like taking another's life in SD, lightly though. The A Plus Coffee incident left me shaken for a bit afterwards (And no, I don't mean seconds) because I could have, and if it had come to it, WOULD have killed the guy who was posing a threat to a very close friend.

had it come to it, yes, I would have stabbed him in the throat, repeatedly, to protect her, and to make sure I was going to make it home that night. PERIOD!

But, we are human beings with feelings and emotions, so, assumoing one is well balanced, there will be sadness at having to have done such an act, and not joy and elation over it. that is some serious $#!+, and not something to be taken lightly, as seems to be the manner of the "I wish a mother F#@%er would...." crowd.

And each time we joke about such things, it does reinforce the stand of the antis that we are all, cold blooded, spiteful, ill tempered, pieces of $#!+, who want nothing more than a reason to oull that trigger, and send some innocent "15 YO boy" who did the wrong thing to the wrong person, but is "just misunderstood", or was about to "Come into his own, and follow the right path" into an early grave. And then we will all go out, suck down beers, while still carrying, and fist bump our buddies while bragging out there being one less scumbag in the world, and we gave him what he deserved.

I can't speak for the rest of you, but I personally, do NOT want to be looked at that way, by the other side, who we can't bring to our side, but more importantly, by the fence sitters, who we could have brought to our side.

Such behavior tends to put them on the ground on the other side of said fence.

And now, it's time to question why I even bothered posting this, as no one will listen or even think about what I, and a few others, have posted on that one.

As so many are so quick to judge, and place motives they think may have been why the person did X, then celebrate their death, it does raise a question. if you were at the gro=cery store, and saw a car with one adult, and 3 kids, and it's obvious they are living out of it, and everything they own is out in that car, and you saw the dad trying to shoplift a loaf of bread, would it ever cross your mind to pull out $20, walk up, place a few items in your cart, and help thjem out, instead of judging them?

I have never had kids, and been in those shoes, but I have been in the pair of someone having to eat wish sandwiches and Ramen to survive before. having been there, if I had had kids, i can honestly say that I would have found a way to steal the whole grocery department of the local Walmart, if that's what it took to feed them.

it never came to that with my wife and her daughter, but if it had, I would have risked getting caught poaching to keep them fed. Any "man" who says he wouldn't is either a liar, or should stop calling himself a man, right f#@%in' now.

Or he has never had kids.

As to not a lot of blood on the floor, I have seen cases where someone was shot, and it was a vital CNS hit, where the heart stops almost immediately. there is very little blood in that case, as when you shut a pump down, flow tends to stop fairly quick at that point.

As long as the heart is going OTOH, blood everywhere, until it runs out, or hits a low enough level to lose pressure in the system.

The other side of that is, gravity still works, and it is the law. Blood tends to travel south in the body, and pools at the lowest spot once the heart stops beating. that's part of why we are told to elevate an injury that has caused bleeding, as it slows the blood flow, and it keeps more blood in vital areas.

If you heart\lung a deer, as it is running, blood is not just coming out of the body via the bullet hole, but also pooling in the bottom of the inside of the chest cavity. I have seen double lung and heart shot deer run a fair bit, and had to look at how the twigs, branches, and leaves have been disturbed to finally track them down. 4 times over the ;last 30 years, I have found blood at the site of the hit, and a drop here or there, and wondered if I missed, only to find the deer, open it, and be soaked up to my elbows in blood upon opening the chest cavity.

So, a lack of blood, or less that what one would expect, on the outside of the body, don't always mean it was a fake, or was less than fatal.
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
For one, it's someone's child or brother.
Yeah, me too. If I gave a damn about my appalling relatives, I would think about that before I waved a gun in a victims face. Oh, wait, what if the victim is someone's child or brother?

If I was living in a ghetto, no father, no education, no job, and mouths to feed - stealing might seem like a "good" way to feed my kids.
I grew up in a banjo pickin (deleted) white trash ghetto. Every third home had an Uncle Bob, fresh out of Marquette or Jackson, who had to do crimes because the man was holding him back, stomping him down, some BS excuse. They steal because they are too good to work for a living. A self imagined sense of superiority. None of them would acknowledge their offspring, but if Grandma won the lottery every one of the grandkids would suddenly have four dads.
 
#29 ·
And that verifies what and how?
 
#27 ·
Before I get to the bulk of my post, a little background.
1. I served as a Combat Engineer from 2007 to 2008, when I was medically discharged.
2. I did not serve in a combat zone. I was in a unit that was still drawing gear and equipment, preparing to deploy to Afghanistan when they found the medical issues.

I do not know how I would react in this kind of situation.

Some of the other soldiers in my platoon were talking once about what they'd do if X, Y, or Z happened, passing around the typical macho bravado answers. My team leader noticed I didn't open my mouth and asked me point blank how I thought I would react and I had to state, "I don't know." I'd like to think that I would immediately react in accordance with my training. I further explained that tend to be a very protective person and I think I would probably freeze for a second or two til I realize what is happening, then I would do whatever is necessary to protect my friends. That is my nature. How will I react to the consequences of my application of force? Again, I do not know. Based on the way I've responded to other emergencies in my life, I respond first, reflect later. Psychos have no feeling or regard for taking another life, or actively take joy in the destruction of others. Sane people may feel remorse for the necessity of taking another life, relief that those they care for survived and a threat has been removed, or anguish that they were the cause of potential, talent, or love that is now ended.

When we strap on a firearm, stage it beside the bed, or otherwise prepare it for use, most of us (I sincerely hope) are not thinking, "today, if someone pops up and starts acting the fool, I'm gonna blast 'em away." Most of us are probably thinking, "I hope I don't have to use this today." I agree with Dallas and kfox that the use of a firearm is not a light matter. However, when an individual makes the decision to become a real, immediate, and deadly threat to others, that threat must be dealt with. While it is not an occurrence to be sought after, the individual that created the situation by performing that threatening act is the one primarily responsible. A shoplifter grabbing some bread, food, clothing, video game, etc. does not merit a violent response. A shoplifter grabbing weaponry or a robber who pulls a gun does. They made their choice.

I wholeheartedly disagree with confronting an already grieving family with statements like "if he hadn't been an idiot, you'd still have him." The life is gone and all the shoulda, coulda, woulda will not bring them back or prevent it from happening in the first place. It may serve as an object lesson for others considering the same course, but such statements do no good. If the family is insisting or proclaiming that we, as responsible, law-abiding citizens, have no right to shoot their family member when he or she became a threat... have at it. Keep in mind that when confronted with their own stupidity, many such individuals will hold all the tighter to it.
 
#30 ·
Before I get to the bulk of my post, a little background.
1. I served as a Combat Engineer from 2007 to 2008, when I was medically discharged.
2. I did not serve in a combat zone. I was in a unit that was still drawing gear and equipment, preparing to deploy to Afghanistan when they found the medical issues.

I do not know how I would react in this kind of situation.

Some of the other soldiers in my platoon were talking once about what they'd do if X, Y, or Z happened, passing around the typical macho bravado answers. My team leader noticed I didn't open my mouth and asked me point blank how I thought I would react and I had to state, "I don't know." I'd like to think that I would immediately react in accordance with my training. I further explained that tend to be a very protective person and I think I would probably freeze for a second or two til I realize what is happening, then I would do whatever is necessary to protect my friends. That is my nature. How will I react to the consequences of my application of force? Again, I do not know. Based on the way I've responded to other emergencies in my life, I respond first, reflect later. Psychos have no feeling or regard for taking another life, or actively take joy in the destruction of others. Sane people may feel remorse for the necessity of taking another life, relief that those they care for survived and a threat has been removed, or anguish that they were the cause of potential, talent, or love that is now ended.

When we strap on a firearm, stage it beside the bed, or otherwise prepare it for use, most of us (I sincerely hope) are not thinking, "today, if someone pops up and starts acting the fool, I'm gonna blast 'em away." Most of us are probably thinking, "I hope I don't have to use this today." I agree with Dallas and kfox that the use of a firearm is not a light matter. However, when an individual makes the decision to become a real, immediate, and deadly threat to others, that threat must be dealt with. While it is not an occurrence to be sought after, the individual that created the situation by performing that threatening act is the one primarily responsible. A shoplifter grabbing some bread, food, clothing, video game, etc. does not merit a violent response. A shoplifter grabbing weaponry or a robber who pulls a gun does. They made their choice.

I wholeheartedly disagree with confronting an already grieving family with statements like "if he hadn't been an idiot, you'd still have him." The life is gone and all the shoulda, coulda, woulda will not bring them back or prevent it from happening in the first place. It may serve as an object lesson for others considering the same course, but such statements do no good. If the family is insisting or proclaiming that we, as responsible, law-abiding citizens, have no right to shoot their family member when he or she became a threat... have at it. Keep in mind that when confronted with their own stupidity, many such individuals will hold all the tighter to it.
Certifiable, excellent post.

i doubt any one really knows how we are going to react to such a situation until it happens. we can hope, guess or think of how we might react, but there is no certain outcome until it happens.

any day i carry a pistol in public, i saw a prayer that it's not the day i have to use it. i hope and pray, i never find out what it's like to take another person's life, even some low-life POS scumbag intent on doing me, or my loved ones harm. first of all, i tend to not to go looking for trouble, or be in places where it's much more likely to occur. i tend to mind my own business. i expect others to extend that same courtesy to me. i want to be left alone. but, i also realize that sometimes trouble likes to come looking for someone to totally mess with their lives in a bad way. BTDT a few time in the past. and just because i value the sacredness of life doesn't mean that if put into a position of having to defend myself or my loved ones that it would be a hard decision for me to make in ending the life of an attacker if pushed with no other options. i would take no joy in the deed in anyways, and i'm pretty sure afterwards it will mess with my mind, but i accepted that as possibility many years ago when i took on the responsibility to carry, or have a firearm for self defense, and that o would have to learn to deal with the aftermath if it were to happen. making that decision to use up to deadly force in self defense was a very hard one for me. and i thought long and hard about it. the question that stuck with me was the one my father asked me, "Could i live with myself for not killing someone who was intent on killing me or my loved ones?" once i answered that question, i turned the corner and knew what i had to do.

my Christian upbringing will always lead me to believe in the sacredness of all life. and even if i had no choice but to take another life in self defense, i can only hope that i retain my humanity that i find no pleasure or joy in the taking of that person's life, regardless of how bad a person they might have been, or that they would have visited ill intent upon me or my loved ones.
 
#33 ·
Some of us here, me included (many times), have HAD to use deadly force and I can tell you it will happen, most of the time, so fast you don't have time to 'ponder' it, especially in a civilian SD situation. And I can tell you from experience that the 'overly educated idealistic idiots' of the world will tell you that you MUST have negative felling as a result. THIS IS PURE BS!!!:mad: If what you do is for the right reasons you should not feel 'guilty' for doing it. In the Army I did what I needed to do to 'fight' the enemy, and as a cop I did what was need to protect myself and others. EVERY TIME was for the right reasons. I do not loose any sleep or have any problem with what I did. The 6. commandment is not 'Thou shall not kill' it is THOU SHALL NOT MURDER'. I have never murdered anyone!
I did not enjoy doing it, but it was just a part of my life.
 
#34 ·
You only have a problem with killing another person if you have a conscience.
 
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#38 · (Edited)
There are those, even Christians, who will argue that the wording of the second amendment is absolute and cast in stone, but will find many reasons to waltz all around the wording of the 6th commandment, which was, in fact, cast in stone, and is taken as the holy word of the Creator from which all inalienable rights spring.

Christians and Jews should consider the Ten Commandments to be the "real constitution" as written by the hand of God. The prophets, priests, popes and rabbis are the ones who interpret the meaning of the only "real" law. We tend to accept their interpretations when they conflict with the written law, and serves our purposes, but do not want to accept the interpretations to the Constitution, as written and interpreted by mortal men.

I find that interesting that they can balance the two propositions.
 
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#39 ·
the internet, video games, and Hollywood have successfully de-sensitized the population, making death and killing commonplace.

oddly enough, perps and thugs, (because of video games and Hollywood) think, that they wont die and the medical profession will save them.

oh yeah...and utube makes everyone all gun and shooting experts. lol.
my shoot and hoots de-bunked that one real quick. :>
 
#40 ·
When a person is "forced" to kill another person, he or she should be required to gaze into the face of the victim and then break the news, personally to the family. It may be painful, but according to some replies, if spoken honestly, it could go something like this:

"Greetings 'mam. I am officer X with the X police department. I responded to the report of a man brandishing a gun at the park where your 14 year old plays. I drove my car up on the grass, jumped out and killed your boy within like five seconds. It turns out, it was a toy gun. My partner and I sat around the car shooting the bull until the ambulance and my supervisors arrived. I am not sure if he was dead at the time, but I did not attempt to save him. It was a clean shooting so it didn't matter. The investigation will consider the shooting justified, I will not have any remorse over your son's death. Have a nice day."

Have I got that right, Jim?
 
#42 · (Edited)
You are so detached from reality and clueless that your post dose not even deserve a response. But I will tell you I have been the primary officer on MANY death notifications and when I was working (on shift) I was specifically chosen becasue I am very compassionate and caring and I have had to deal with the stress involved (to the officer) and can handle it better than most, which is one of the biggest problem in LE. As I said earlier, I did not enjoy using deadly force, but I did not let the use 'scar' me as you, and your liberal friends, think it should/must.!
You are what we in the LE business refer to as a 'sheepeople'!!! You, and all the liberal sheepeople, owe those of us who can deal with the messy real world and the stress involved in doing so a great debt.
 
#48 ·
Still waiting for your answers chain!!! How much experience do you have in the use of deadly force to base your 'no conscience' comment, and you 'do not owe' anything to me and the others who have excepted the call to serve in the military and LE and HAD to use deadly force comment! But I doubt you will answer as, being the liberal secular progressive you claim, all you can say is "I am better than you so I know best"!
 
#49 ·
JimRau, I agree that the officer that is required to make those notifications does need to be the most cool-headed, compassionate, and politic (not political, "politic - (of an action) seeming sensible and judicious under the circumstances) person on the force. This individual is the one that will be on the receiving end of some of the worst and most extreme emotions. The officer's actions, demeanor, and attitude will significantly impact the family's response.

Chainfire, the officer who fired his or her weapon does bear some responsibility for the consequences. If the officer is so callous that your example of that notification would be accurate, that person has no business wearing a badge. However, in most situations, the officer that fired and may have ended a life erroneously would not be my first choice to make that notification. Even if it is the same officer as the department's most compassionate, etc. mentioned above, that officer is not likely to be in an appropriate frame of mind to deal with the emotions of the family, nor would they necessarily be particularly welcomed by the family. The family would likely be further provoked by the mere presence of that officer. In time, it may be possible for the errant officer to interact with the family, but that interaction would need to be carefully managed and acceptable by both parties to avoid causing further harm.

What many in our current society do not seem to understand is the difference between standing up for your rights versus belligerent stupidity in the face of reasonable requests. To use your example, Chainfire, of the cop that arrives on scene to a report of an individual waving a gun around on a playground. It is entirely reasonable, in my opinion, for the officer(s) to approach that situation with weapon drawn. Those toy guns are supposed to have a bright orange tip as a blatantly obvious visual cue that this is not a weapon. What do kids do when they receive that toy? They repaint or cut off that orange tip because you can't be stealthy and sneak up on your friends when you're playing with something bright orange sticking out there. Now the cop has no or much fewer visual cues that this is not a real firearm. Furthermore, many times, people try to "stand up for their rights" and refuse to put down this thing I'm waving around because it's just a toy. The person refuses to follow instructions intended to keep the officer, the nearby public, and/or the individual safe and winds up making a bad situation far worse. Their refusal to follow instructions and their continued behavior starts to line up more and more with the worst possible situation the officer is envisioning and praying he/she can avoid.

As far as rendering aid when shots have been fired, you can thank our appearance versus substance driven society for that one. Growing up, there was the assumption that emergency response personnel were there to render assistance to the public to the best of their ability. Now, if an officer is forced to shoot and then renders aid but the suspect dies anyway, they may be accused of making sure the person didn't make it. If another officer renders aid, they may be accused of helping to cover up for the other.

I'm sure someone will accuse me of "making excuses for corrupt cops," but the vast majority of officers I've met have been decent people trying to do their jobs. There are those that are there for a power trip, but in my experience they are the extreme minority. Who knows, maybe that's just my "White Privilege" talking and I'm walking through life with blinders on. Or maybe I've just been extraordinarily lucky and only happened to meet the few good officers in a sea of corruption. I suspect, however, that the cases you hear about on the news are the bad apples that stick out and make for sensational and drama-filled news stories.
 
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#51 · (Edited)
I agree with most of what you posted. But 'bad' is what makes ratings on TV and the internet so that will get the attention.:( That said I do not have a problem with the actions of LE officers, especially deadly force, being reviewed and investigated fairly and impartially by the proper authorities. The problem in the last few years that has not been the case, Ferguson is a perfect example, where the liberal progressive 'press' has taken it upon them selves to JUDGE, JURY, AND EXECUTIONER even if they were 10000% wrong!:mad::mad: Then there are people, like some here, who have this same liberal progressive bias who have never had to face the BAD SIDE of reality and who think those of us who have HAD to spend time in "the mud, the blood, and the beer" whether by choice (LE and/or military), or by chance are second class citizens compared to them! The problem is we are seeing these unrealistic, overly civilized, idealistic idiots (liberal secular progressives) being place on positions of authority more and more in our guberment at all levels!!! :(
 
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