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Gun shoots twice with 1 trigger pull

6K views 51 replies 13 participants last post by  bobski 
#1 ·
My Winchester Model 50 12 ga was misbehaving yesterday at Deg's shoot. On 4 occasions, one trigger pull resulted in both rounds fired. It is possible that one of them was the result of having too light a grip with the trigger hand. The gun may have recoiled enough to reset the trigger resulting in a 2nd unintentional pull. But after that first occurrence, I was careful to hold down for a 1 count before releasing the trigger. On later occurrences, Kansas45 was watching and said he did not see me come off the gun in any way.

What else could cause that to happen? Is it something that a non-gunsmith (me) could correct?
 
#2 ·
The Model 50 is not really a non-gunsmith friendly shotgun. Sounds like the disconnector is having an issue. I recommend a very thorough use of Gun Scrubber followed by your choice of light lubricant. Then try it again at the range.
 
#3 ·
I'm OK with disassembly down to the point of removing the trigger assembly and the bolt. I am not confident of taking either of those apart.

I can remove the bolt and use Gun Scrubber on it to clean it pretty well. I'm sure it could be made cleaner by disassembly, but I'm not up for that level of fine detail work. Gun Scrubber removes all lubrication. Should I lubricate any of the internal mechanism in the bolt?
 
#5 ·
My daddy's old Remington model 11, copy of Browning A5, would quite frequently pop off a second one on you, right about the time you started to loosen the brace of the stock against your shoulder.

That gun was stolen 40+ years ago, hopefully karma put a serous bruise on some jack leg.
 
#6 ·
Not much is more dangerous than an unpredictable firearm.
 
#8 ·
OK, I tore the gun down enough to get the bolt out. I found that the back end of the ejector rod was peened over slightly. Don't know if that's normal for a 60 year old shotgun. I don't think it has anything to do with the double firing action.

There is no visible wear on any of the parts of the trigger assembly, but I probably don't know what I'm looking for. Do I need to disassemble the trigger guard assembly to see whether there is a problem with the disconnector?

After reassembly, I function check every gun I clean by dryfiring and holding the trigger all the way back, then recock the gun, then carefully release the trigger to the reset point, then dryfire it again. With my shotgun it is difficult to reset without having the trigger drop again. Total travel from fully depressed to reset point is very small. I estimate it to be between 1/16th and 1/8th inch, though I don't know how I'd measure it accurately.

I also cleaned Winds Model 50 (20 ga). When I did the function check on her gun, the travel for the reset was very similar distance-wise. But after resetting, there was a distinct movement required to dryfire a 2nd time. The feel is noticeably different. Does this have anything to do with double firing?
 
#9 ·
The difference in the triggers could just be normal tolerances from gun to gun. Those models are pretty tough guns. I still think it is just sticking or hampered by a small amount of debris. The problem almost has to be in the trigger group. Blast the heck out of it with that Gun Scrubber then lightly lube and try it with live ammo at the range.
 
#10 ·
They certainly look pretty solid. Nothing inside looks even remotely flimsy. Both of our Model 50's were born in the mid 50's; both are about 1-2 years younger than their owners, around 60 years old. I don't think either of them have been modified since the day they had the Dial-A-Duck chokes installed. Both barrels are stamped with a fixed choke designation (one is Mod the other Imp Cyl), but they have the same adjustable choke system installed.

I'll update after next shotgun outing and let you know how it worked out. Thanks for the tip on Gun Scrubber.
 
#12 ·
Which part?
 
#14 ·
If it continues to have problems, I will. Hiwall has suggested a good blast with Gun Scrubber to clear any debris or fouling around the disconnector and then test it out in a controlled environment.

I don't use this gun for home defense, so it remains unloaded until I'm at a shooting station such as skeet, trap or sporting clays. Always pointed downrange in a safe direction anyway, but I'll be especially careful about that while test firing it.

I hope to take it to a skeet/trap range and perhaps a couple rounds of 5 stand. Never loaded over 2 rounds at a time until I'm comfortable with it. When it was failing, it failed 4 times in 100 pairs. So, I intend to go through at least 200 rounds without a double before I become comfortable with it again.
 
#15 · (Edited)
order all new trigger assy springs.
check the hammer pin for slop.
also too, check for side play in the trigger assy and the receiver. sometimes the trigger group pin wears the trigger group hole and allows the trigger group to bind sideways, causing the sear to fall off if the bolt and it hits it out of time or crooked.
remember, your trigger group is alloy. pin is steel. metal against alloy wears alloy.
 
#16 ·
when i get back to va, i can send you a couple of trigger groups for you to swap with. when you find one that works, compare to yours to see what changed. ...and then youll know what was wrong with yours. follow me?
 
#17 ·
fyi...the trigger assy is the weak link of the 50, because its alloy. if they had made it out of steel like a model 12....it would still be shooting.
the mere fact that your gun being 60 years old and still firing...is a testimony in itself.
 
#19 ·
Yes, I think it did that once or twice there. Didn't think too much about it. Then 4 times during Deg's shoot was more than could be ignored.

What I think you're saying is that the trigger group is worn in some way or springs are weak. Wear on an edge could cause the sear to jump off where it was supposed to stay. Such wear should be visible. Weak spring may not be visible and I would not be able to tell about a spring.
 
#20 ·
agree......
and...it could as simple as having a smith put a new edge on a hammer/sear.
3 things to look at. good luck and just ask if you want to try another group when i get back to va.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Trigger group removed with safety on and after closing the bolt. Hammer is up. Hammer catch is locked by the safety.

The book says in this condition the clearance between the hammer and the catch should be no more than 0.003. Best I can measure with ye olde feeler gauges is something more like 0.015.

That's measured as the hammer is being pressed down towards the catch. Closest point of approach.

On this sketch measured between D and E while depressing the hammer to minimize clearance.
 

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#22 ·
Since Winds has a Model 50 20ga, I checked the trigger on hers also. That clearance is about 0.005. More importantly, the hammer catch on hers comes to a point at the leading edge. On mine the leading edge is square. I think the hammer catch is worn about as much as the overwidth.

The book says that is adjustable by filing at point F in the sketch. I'm not comfortable doing that level of gunsmithing. And I don't know if the range of adjustment can cover the gap I've got.

Option 1: take to a smith and see if they can adjust it.

Option 2: get a replacement hammer catch.

Option 3: buy a complete trigger group.

Thoughts?
 
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