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Has there been a loss of gun safety knowledge?

7K views 100 replies 25 participants last post by  Dallas53 
#1 ·
In a world built around the polarization of political views, it is often times challenging to discuss issues that cause this polarization. One of these topics known around the United States is gun control, whether one wants more or less gun control will often lead to a direct polarization in the room and result in an us versus them mentality on both sides. This polarization has resulted in a loss care over simple issues on both sides of a given argument.

For gun owners I believe there has been a general loss of gun safety. This loss I believe occurs when someone becomes polarized on an issue. Rather than learning the necessary knowledge to be a responsible gun owner often times one is more worried about defending their right of having guns than knowing how to use them. The second way there is a loss of concern over general gun safety is the way society has turned gun mishaps into a comical events. According to a study by the CDC, between the years of 2005 and 2010 there were 3,800 accidental shooting deaths (Aftermath Services, 2017).

Part of this stems from personal experience. While growing up my parents taught me everything I know about guns and gun safety and this was reiterated each time I shot a gun. This shared knowledge of gun safety seems to have been lost in the translation at some point. Most of the time when I take someone shooting I have to spend the first 15 minutes simply telling him or her how to handle my guns safely. Whereas most individuals seem to just tell people to aim and pull the trigger. Which results in flagging, accidental discharges, dropped guns, inadequate trigger discipline and many more issues.

The second way general gun safety seems to be lost is how individuals experience guns in the media. A majority times I see a video of someone shooting a gun it is meant to be funny. This results in many thinking “gun fails” are funny rather than realizing how dangerous and harmful they truly are and could be.

In this video many think it is comical that this individual shoots him self but miss the underlying issues. He shoots himself due to a lack of trigger discipline, which should be learned when one, learns general gun safety.




In many funny “gun fail” videos the individual missis the most elemental rule of firearm safety, treat every gun as if it were loaded. The next video shows a male shooting a pistol in his house while using it as a toy.



Each of these situations could have and should have been avoided with simple gun safety knowledge. Try watching these videos with gun safety in mind and see if they are still funny. With this being said I believe it is our responsibility as gun owners to know general gun safety and aid others in practicing gun safety as well. This increase in gun safety will decrease the number of senseless deaths and will aid in keeping our rights.

Examining Accidental Shooting Death Statistics. (n.d.). Retrieved December 12, 2017, from http://www.aftermath.com/content/accidental-shooting-deaths-statistics
 
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#4 ·
There have always been jerks with guns. They drove me away from public ranges. I don't really think it is anything new, but it seems to be a self-correcting problem.
 
#5 ·
Srsly?

People make mistakes. We've seen it with the chief of police gets his coat draw string caught in the trigger guard, we've seen it with the fed officer having a ND.

I watched a highly skilled have a ND right in front of me, 3' away, that prompted me to go get my RSO. I work at the largest PPC competition in the country and thanks to my wife running scoring room, get to work on the range for probably 90% of the shooters. I've given up being amazed at how many ways skilled shooters can screw up.

Best thing we can do is help fellow shooters understand. Some get it, some don't.
 
#6 ·
Example #1: The guy was trying to be Wyatt Earp, without the control or practice,
AND he admittedly doctored the gun, and defeated all the safeties. He knew the rules,
he just chose to ignore them, and paid the price.
Example #2: Smack-talking wannabe swipes somebody else's gun, and is too high or
ego-ed up to pay attention to what he is doing. Not that he knows what he's doing,
anyway.

There are better examples of carelessness on youtube, but these two examples are fine.
There was a time when things, like teaching gun safety, practicing till you were proficient
enough NOT to shoot yourself on camera, and supervising your children, at least to the
point where you lock up their access to your guns, were a priority. These days,
not so much.
 
#7 ·
Example #1: The guy was trying to be Wyatt Earp, without the control or practice,
AND he admittedly doctored the gun, and defeated all the safeties. He knew the rules,
he just chose to ignore them, and paid the price.
Example #2: Smack-talking wannabe swipes somebody else's gun, and is too high or
ego-ed up to pay attention to what he is doing. Not that he knows what he's doing,
anyway.

There are better examples of carelessness on youtube, but these two examples are fine.
There was a time when things, like teaching gun safety, practicing till you were proficient
enough NOT to shoot yourself on camera, and supervising your children, at least to the
point where you lock up their access to your guns, were a priority. These days,
not so much.

I've seen that kid in the 2nd video in other videos that pop up.

I've been told by u tube fanatics that he sets those up using blanks and then posts them.

As to the topic, out of millions of gun carriers 3800 isn't a bad number.
Few other areas of life can claim that few mishaps for that number of people involved.
There will always be THAT guy in about everything in life.
 
#10 ·
Here's where I think part of it comes from. Social Media.

The number of total f#@% ups has not changed, in relation to the total number of carriers, owners, shooters, and trainers out there. We just see more of it, because more folks are posting it, putting it on YT, or blogging about it. Also, if an "OH $#!+!!" happens in Florida, once it hits the local news sites, it goes up on the web. twenty years ago, if it happened in Miami, and only one person was killed or injured by the incident, it pretty much stayed in the MD Metro area.

Another cause, how many of us grew up with the Ten Commandments of Gun Safety, instead of the Four rules many like to quote now?

Many of us in the older set may feel that it is an unwritten rule that you don't jump a ditch with a loaded long gun, or you don't climb a tree\tree stand with one, but kids taught the 4 rules, have never heard that. I would also bet that more of us lived in homes with unloaded firearms back them, meaning when junior didn't clear dad's shotgun, and then pulled the trigger, it didn't go off.

With the trends of HD, and CC, there are more loaded firearms in homes these days, which would up the number of "OOPs!" moments, with evidence of said incidents.

now, in a lot of ways, I can agree that following the four rules would eliminate most injuries or deaths, but, as PD mentioned above, there is a theory, one I agree with BTW, that sometimes $#!+ happens. All it takes is a single second of not paying attention to what you are doing, and BANG!, you now have a ventilated entertainment center. Or a split seam in your pant leg, hole in your shoe (And foot), or are on the way to the ER with a GSW, in yourself, a friend, or a family member.

Add to that the simple fact that the common number of mechanical failures from the factory, a percentage of which include things like the gun going bang upon the slide being released (Which happened to me many years ago, when a friend's 1911 went off due to a sear failure, and getting hit in the leg, through the living room wall, by a 230 grain JSP), or due to a person buying a used firearm, and not having the manual, so they didn't know about the possible risk of a discharge due to a design flaw (My mom's old J22, which didn't lock the slide with the safety on, so upon chambering a round, I shot the dirt downrange.)

Sometimes you can do everything right, remember every rule, and follow them to a tee, and something will still just go wrong.
 
#11 ·
I think it has to do with the years that they were born and the Generations such as Gen X,Y or millennial , and Gen Z. The Gen X kids were sometimes referred to as the lost generation. This was the generation of "latchkey" kids, exposed to a lot of daycare and divorce. Had no father figures to provide guidance. They in turn now are adults and will influence their children based on their own experiences Though probably the most educated of this generation they are the most skeptical.

Now you have the millennial who are incredibly sophisticated in technology and this is all they have grown up with. They learn all they can about firearms from you tube and the forum. No Dad to teach them hands on one to one common sense rules since their Dad is Gen X and Gen X's father was not around to teach him.

Just my two cents I do not belong to any of the generations I wrote about but I learned from my Grand pappy and my pappy about hunting, fishing, trapping, and shooting. I am from the baby boomers II generation or Generation Jones.
 
#12 ·
Of course there has been a loss of gun safety knowledge.

It's because ownership of guns is not as common as it once was.

People used to get a lot of gun knowledge simply by their ready presence.

That's why I believe that the strategy of the NRA to say that everyone should own a gun is a bad strategy.

The NRA should be out there promoting free gun safety classes in every youth venue in our country.

Mom and Dad didn't teach me a dang thing about gun safety,,,
I learned what I knew from the cop who came to our public schools every year.

In these modern ages we should be all about requiring some level of training.

I know this will get me flamed but every time I read about a new gun owner doing something stupid I go back to this idea that training needs to be mandatory.

I do know the counter-argument that the anti's would make the training requirement so onerous and expensive that it would just be another form of gun control.

But in these modern ages where people in their 30's and 40's may have never seen a gun up close, it's like giving someone a car and no drivers training at all.

A one day class similar to the classes for concealed carry would not be too expensive.

Fifty years ago, national constitutional carry would not have been such a bad thing,,,
Because the general public had a greater knowledge of how guns work.

If national constitutional carry were to happen today I believe it would be a total disaster,,,
Far too many completely ignorant (not stupid, just ignorant) people would hurt themselves or others.

Then the anti-gunners could cry out, "See, we said all along that this was a bad idea."

I could go on and on about this but I believe you all get the gist of my thoughts.

Aarond

.
 
#23 ·
I go back to this idea that training needs to be mandatory.
No you won't get flamed by me because I agree with you. There is a certain assumption that the general public will make about firearm knowledge or training and will assume that is the standard. In the military, for example almost everyone that did not serve in the military assumes that our training is extensive in firearms and combat tactics. This is totally false. Everyone in the military does have to qualify with their assigned weapon but sometimes depending on the unit and funding that unit had you qualified only once a year, and in some units it was done even less, like the medical field for one.
Just before I retired I remember having to qualify a few MP companies and a brigade full of officers before sending them to Kuwait. As the range officer it was terrifying seeing officers and enlisted soldiers not having a single clue as to how to handle their M16 in a safe manner. I agree with you, everyone should swallow their pride, including myself and do some formal training. Why would anyone be against this if this only makes you more formidable to the criminal element and makes you more proficient with a firearm.
 
#13 ·
OK, I'm really confused. Each election cycle associated with Obama and this last one with Clinton/Trump were preceded by record-setting gun sales and huge numbers of new gun owners. I don't think "ownership of guns is not as common as it once was" is correct. Ownership of guns is MORE common now than then.

And THAT is what leads to larger numbers of poorly trained (or untrained) gun owners.

As far as mandatory training, you're right. You probably will get flamed. So will I. We require some level of training and demonstrated proficiency before giving drivers licenses to kids. I see no problem with extending that wisdom to another potentially deadly weapon, even though the frequency of killing with guns is a tiny fraction compared to killing by automobile. In this context, killing by accident, murder, suicide, or any other category is still just killing.

The training aspect addresses the accidental category and does not have much impact on the others. Society considers the benefit of reducing accidental deaths by training drivers to be worth the expenditure of money and the "infringement" of the generally perceived "right" to do whatever we dang well please. In my opinion, regardless of differences in the perception of the importance of RTKBA, 2A and infringements thereof, society would do well to consider such benefits in the area of gun ownership.
 
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#16 ·
OK, I'm really confused. Each election cycle associated with Obama and this last one with Clinton/Trump were preceded by record-setting gun sales and huge numbers of new gun owners. I don't think "ownership of guns is not as common as it once was" is correct. Ownership of guns is MORE common now than then.

And THAT is what leads to larger numbers of poorly trained (or untrained) gun owners.

As far as mandatory training, you're right. You probably will get flamed. So will I. We require some level of training and demonstrated proficiency before giving drivers licenses to kids. I see no problem with extending that wisdom to another potentially deadly weapon, even though the frequency of killing with guns is a tiny fraction compared to killing by automobile. In this context, killing by accident, murder, suicide, or any other category is still just killing.

The training aspect addresses the accidental category and does not have much impact on the others. Society considers the benefit of reducing accidental deaths by training drivers to be worth the expenditure of money and the "infringement" of the generally perceived "right" to do whatever we dang well please. In my opinion, regardless of differences in the perception of the importance of RTKBA, 2A and infringements thereof, society would do well to consider such benefits in the area of gun ownership.



If one is required to do anything by gov at any level to exercise a right, that right instantly ceases to exist and becomes a "privilege ".

One does not ask permission to exercise a right.

There is a firearms training class around every corner. If one wants to attend more power to them. Voluntarily.

As far, as constitutional carry being a disaster there is no evidence past nor present to suggest that.
In fact quite the opposite.
Some states have went entirely constitutional carry with no accidental rivers of blood.
My own state has had unregulated OC since statehood.

Again no basis in fact to believe national constitutional carry would be any different.
 
#14 ·
It comes down to the correct type of education, I remember a time when my son mishandled a firearm after shooting because of his response to the recoil. I got on him so hard he wouldn't speak to me for about 4 hours, but after explaining the reason I was so hard on him he understood. We need to educate and kept learning all we can.
 
#15 ·
In a world built around the polarization of political views, it is often times challenging to discuss issues that cause this polarization. One of these topics known around the United States is gun control, whether one wants more or less gun control will often lead to a direct polarization in the room and result in an us versus them mentality on both sides. This polarization has resulted in a loss care over simple issues on both sides of a given argument.

For gun owners I believe there has been a general loss of gun safety. This loss I believe occurs when someone becomes polarized on an issue. Rather than learning the necessary knowledge to be a responsible gun owner often times one is more worried about defending their right of having guns than knowing how to use them. The second way there is a loss of concern over general gun safety is the way society has turned gun mishaps into a comical events. According to a study by the CDC, between the years of 2005 and 2010 there were 3,800 accidental shooting deaths (Aftermath Services, 2017).

Part of this stems from personal experience. While growing up my parents taught me everything I know about guns and gun safety and this was reiterated each time I shot a gun. This shared knowledge of gun safety seems to have been lost in the translation at some point. Most of the time when I take someone shooting I have to spend the first 15 minutes simply telling him or her how to handle my guns safely. Whereas most individuals seem to just tell people to aim and pull the trigger. Which results in flagging, accidental discharges, dropped guns, inadequate trigger discipline and many more issues.

The second way general gun safety seems to be lost is how individuals experience guns in the media. A majority times I see a video of someone shooting a gun it is meant to be funny. This results in many thinking “gun fails” are funny rather than realizing how dangerous and harmful they truly are and could be.

In this video many think it is comical that this individual shoots him self but miss the underlying issues. He shoots himself due to a lack of trigger discipline, which should be learned when one, learns general gun safety.




In many funny “gun fail” videos the individual missis the most elemental rule of firearm safety, treat every gun as if it were loaded. The next video shows a male shooting a pistol in his house while using it as a toy.



Each of these situations could have and should have been avoided with simple gun safety knowledge. Try watching these videos with gun safety in mind and see if they are still funny. With this being said I believe it is our responsibility as gun owners to know general gun safety and aid others in practicing gun safety as well. This increase in gun safety will decrease the number of senseless deaths and will aid in keeping our rights.

Examining Accidental Shooting Death Statistics. (n.d.). Retrieved December 12, 2017, from http://www.aftermath.com/content/accidental-shooting-deaths-statistics
We get lazy and careless or complacent especially if we don't get to shoot much anymore.
Someone that shoots every day gets a bit lazy with rules over time too.
Like driving a car. I had to drive sometimes hundreds o miles a day. I adapted to stopping where it was essential and not taking a good look at some stops and so on.
So I did this more than once over the decades.
I started out like a check list and did everything according to Hoyle.
Including sticking to the speed limit signs, which sometime might change twice in a mile or so.
Sort of a refresher course.
I still haven't shot skeet at the club. I know how to handle a gun safely , but where there are lots o other people and rules well....I will have to learn to conform.
 
#17 ·
Ideals are a wonderful thing. Practical wisdom and balance exist to protect us from ideals taken to an extreme.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Rights are not 'ideals' in the sense of everyday practice. The biggest danger to our country is the uninformed voter, not an 'untrained' gun owner so should we reinstate poll taxes and literacy tests???? With familiarity comes complacency in about everything we do. But the 'gun' is by far the safest machine you could ever own, the motor vehicle is millions of times more dangerous than a gun. Two words sum up gun safety, WHEN AND WHERE! There is zero danger until the 'when' is used, pulling the trigger' and then only if the 'where' is disregarded, muzzle control. The probability of any one person in our country being killed or seriously injured by an unintentional discharge, mistake, is millions of times less than that person being killed or seriously injured by a mistake made while operating a motor vehicle. Just a fact, BUT becasue of gun phobia we have been indoctrinated to believe other wise and FEAR guns. I have found while training both civilians and LE this gun phobia is a bigger problem than lack of training.
 
#22 ·
with every right, comes great responsibility. but of course, what we always have are a few lunatic radicals on the outer fringes who will always scream and holler to the rafters about their rights being infringed. but what they fail to comprehend is that they don't feel they should have to accept any responsibility for those rights.

gun safety should never be taken lightly, nor should it be mandatory to be able to exercise a right either. if person chooses to exercise their right to own and bear arms, they should have the common sense to accept the responsibility upon themselves to use a firearms in safe manner.

and two things, in my opinion do come to mind that make this a personal responsibility that keep things in regulated manner of not infringing upon others. one, Darwin's theory works at weeding out those who act in irresponsible manner of cleaning the gen pool when idiots act stupid. now if that stupidity acts our in manner that endangers, injures or kills others, then we have laws to punish the stupidity of the irresponsible person.

but, what does end up happening, and has been proven for many years now, is that when a society fails in self policing themselves of certain behaviors, then it's inevitable that at some point, the government, whether it be local, state, or federal will step in and impose laws to insure the safety of the greater good of society.

my personal belief is that the earlier children learn gun safety, the better. and you tailor teaching them by their level of maturity, and not necessarily an arbitrary age number. children progress into maturity at different ages.
 
#26 ·
Training should be mandatory and we need to reinstate poll taxes and literacy tests! o_O
There should be no training or permitting REQUIRED to exercise ANY of our rights, PERIOD!!! :mad:
 
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#30 ·
Dallas. You keep forgetting that C on the end of NY.

Most COUNTIES in NYS pretty much pass out CC permits like candy. It's NYC that doesn't.

For instance, most residents of the county I lived in had theirs within a month. Very few took the full 6 months, and most of those were folks that maybe shouldn't have had a firearm, or weapon in general for that matter, due to some serious foul up in their past.

None of which were ever convicted, but NY wants to know about everything higher than a traffic infraction you were ever endicted for on the application. And some of them just barely beat the rap.

And, if it's not a handgun, outside of NYC, no permit is needed. Again, use IL instead, as they require a FOID to own a firearm legally, and then you need a 16 hour course to apply for a CCW there.

Much more stringent that NYS, and, as I never lived in NYC, it's more stringent than NYC has even drempt of being, as their possess on premesis permit is 3 years. A FOID is annual.

CA OTOH, perfect use of that state.
 
#37 ·
many states have instituted Hunter Safety Courses for people to legally hunt. in Texas, i'm way old enough to "grandfather" in without having to complete one to legally hunt!

but here is the deal, the HSC only applies to hunting. has nothing to do with a person who is legally of age and not prohibited from buying and shooting a gun at the range or on their own property.

so simply from my perspective, the HSC doesn't infringe upon the 2nd Amendment rights.
 
#38 ·
many states have instituted Hunter Safety Courses for people to legally hunt. in Texas, i'm way old enough to "grandfather" in without having to complete one to legally hunt!

but here is the deal, the HSC only applies to hunting. has nothing to do with a person who is legally of age and not prohibited from buying and shooting a gun at the range or on their own property.

so simply from my perspective, the HSC doesn't infringe upon the 2nd Amendment rights.
which just happens to be where I disagree with Ghost.
 
#41 ·
Seems odd that the benefit of training for the sake of safety can be seen as a good reason to require training for hunters, but that same benefit/purpose is not of sufficient value to require training for simple carrying of equally deadly weapons.
 
#47 · (Edited)
well Jim, i guess my post went completely over your head, again. there was nothing emotional in the least about my post. simple fact and common sense.

i never said a gun was safer or more dangerous than any of the things you just mentioned. but a guns purpose is much different than that of a vehicle or a chainsaw. a gun is designed as a tool that can kill. a vehicle was designed to provide transportation, and chainsaw was designed to cut wood. both other items have been used to kill with as well.

again if you bothered to read what i posted, instead of trying to infer something i didn't mean. any inanimate object can be used to kill with, just as well as gun.

an inanimate object has no emotions, thoughts or feelings. only the person using it does. if a law abiding citizen uses a firearm to defend themselves with, or a soldier in battle uses his firearm, then we can conclude that the intentions and usage of the gun is good. if a thug or criminal uses a gun to hold up a liquor store, or to rob someone, then the conclusion is the intent and use is evil or bad. but again, the inanimate object, the gun is not at fault.

and sometimes, you really try to go out of your way to over-complicate something that is very simple in application and reality. really Jim, really? maybe you should check your delicate sensibilities at the door when you log onto the forum. just because you get all dramatic and emotional when people don't agree with you is you own character flaw, not ours. even when someone agrees with you, you seriously seem to go out of your way to find someway to piss them off with your replies. a bit of friendly advice Jim, you might want to work on your people skills somewhat. because, they seriously suck!
 
#48 ·
LOL, Like I said well indoctrinated and emotional!!! Typical, attack me when you can't dispute the facts and logic!!!:rolleyes: By the way do you live on this machine???????????;)
 
#56 ·
fact is, i pretty much agreed with some of what Jim said, and even liked his post.

but then he decided to insult my viewpoints by calling me emotional, and indoctrinated, and inferring things i didn't say.

and Jim is one of the first many times to start slinging insults, and when someone throws it back at him he tries playing the victim.

he likes to dish it out, but gets his feelings hurt when someone throws it back at him.

some people might call that being a snowflake!
 
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