Had a training day (more on that later) but for fun also shot a S&B factory 158 gr load.
This particular batch was supposed to go at 1600 fps.
Some of the hottest factory Ammo you can buy.
Until 1955 (when the 44 Mag came out,) the 357 Mag was the world's most powerful handgun round. But the 1500 fps velocity was out of an 8-inch barrel with an all-lead bullet & today's factory loads are lighter than the original - so they won't damage smaller, lighter guns...more like 1350 fps. And you can subtract another 100 - 200 fps for a shorter barrel. Of course, if you use a rifle, you can get much higher velocity than 1600 fps.
I doubt a manufacturer would make a 158 gr 357 at 1600 fps out of a handgun-length barrel; they wouldn't want to risk liability for a damaged gun or shooter, caused by excess pressure. Remember, companies know the power of "creative" advertising & will claim whatever velocity sells the product, figuring few shooters will bother to use a chronograph.
Sometimes, the advertising will include, "These velocities were achieved in test barrels." Translation: "Your gun will not have a 10-12 inch test barrel with no flash gap like a revolver has, so don't expect to get advertised velocities."
Years ago I knew a guy that like to use hot loads in a revolver, if I remember right, it was a Colt Trooper, I looked the revolver over and found that there was a scary flame cut in the top strap just above the cylinder/barrel gap, I warned him to stop using such heavy loads or he would ruin the weapon. He was using H-110, though it's not the only powder that has high pressures, it is something to take into consideration, especially if you are expecting to get many years of use out of your weapon.
Until 1955 (when the 44 Mag came out,) the 357 Mag was the world's most powerful handgun round. But the 1500 fps velocity was out of an 8-inch barrel with an all-lead bullet & today's factory loads are lighter than the original - so they won't damage smaller, lighter guns...more like 1350 fps. And you can subtract another 100 - 200 fps for a shorter barrel. Of course, if you use a rifle, you can get much higher velocity than 1600 fps.
I doubt a manufacturer would make a 158 gr 357 at 1600 fps out of a handgun-length barrel; they wouldn't want to risk liability for a damaged gun or shooter, caused by excess pressure. Remember, companies know the power of "creative" advertising & will claim whatever velocity sells the product, figuring few shooters will bother to use a chronograph.
Sometimes, the advertising will include, "These velocities were achieved in test barrels." Translation: "Your gun will not have a 10-12 inch test barrel with no flash gap like a revolver has, so don't expect to get advertised velocities."
The round was made in Eastern Europe. And for 357 Mag they use the original "hotness".
It was a lot more "oomph" than my 142 gr Fiocchi which is 1420 fps out of the reference revolver and as such also significantly more energy than the more common current US loads. (Which are 158gr at 1200 or 125 gr at 1400 tho hotter domestic loads do exist for those who are looking)
I have some reloaded rounds which are even hotter (160gr @ 1750-1800 fps out of 8 inch) but I not longer shoot them (revolver wear) and keep them stashed for the Robot apocalypse
Years ago I knew a guy that like to use hot loads in a revolver, if I remember right, it was a Colt Trooper, I looked the revolver over and found that there was a scary flame cut in the top strap just above the cylinder/barrel gap, I warned him to stop using such heavy loads or he would ruin the weapon. He was using H-110, though it's not the only powder that has high pressures, it is something to take into consideration, especially if you are expecting to get many years of use out of your weapon.
That's an issue many "creative" handloaders do not consider. The fact that a gun doesn't blow up with heavy loads doesn't mean they're OK. Another issue to consider is the fact that a case that is not new has already been resized & weakened a bit by repeated firing & resizing, so max loads should not be fired in it. That's why gun manufacturers say handloading voids the warranty.
Many years age Shooting Time published pictures of what one hand loader accomplished with two .44 Magnums using the same load. The top frame on a 29 was bulged. Not satisfied they used the same load in a Blackhawk. They not only bulged the top of the frame, but, blew half the cylinder off. I hope that person gave up handloading.
Bluez, i don't know what your end goal is in with your ammo, but if you are trying to push the limits of the ammo, it does do a lot of wear and tear on the revolver.
i would consider maybe giving thought to stepping up to a larger caliber that might give you the performance you are looking for.
if the pistol is mainly for target shooting, going to such velocity extremes is not good for the revolver, and IMO not necessary. it doesn't require much energy or speed to punch holes in paper.
if the pistol is used for self defense, again, not necessary since there are many factory proven loads with JHP ammo made for that purpose. and if you feel that you need more than they can provide, then step up to a 41, or 44 magnum revolver.
just because a revolver can handle the "hot" loads you are using, doesn't mean it's necessarily good for it in the long run. at some point, something is going to wear our or break.
i currently shoot lots of 44 Magnum loads, and because i want to step up the game, i plan on buying either a revolver in 454 Casull, or 460 S&W and start reloading for it.
I am just having a little fun.
I dont buy those really hot loads anymore.
It was a phase.
but I still have nearly all that Ammo.
Had a seriosu 9mm day on Sunday and threw in a couple cylinder of these laods just for fun.
The GP100 is pretty strong.
But that particualr batch of S&B is just [ainful to shoot in the 3 inch.
As for the super hot handloads.
I only have like 150-200 of them.
and they are cached for the time I am ever reduced to hunting w/ a Revolver...
Or the Robot apocalypse.
I am just having a little fun.
I dont buy those really hot loads anymore.
It was a phase.
but I still have nearly all that Ammo.
Had a seriosu 9mm day on Sunday and threw in a couple cylinder of these laods just for fun.
The GP100 is pretty strong.
But that particualr batch of S&B is just [ainful to shoot in the 3 inch.
As for the super hot handloads.
I only have like 150-200 of them.
and they are cached for the time I am ever reduced to hunting w/ a Revolver...
Or the Robot apocalypse.
even a robustly made revolver if fed a diet of hot loads will wear out or break quicker. yes, the GP100 is a very stout, and well made revolver, but it too can fail if fed too many rounds that are to hot.
and the thing is, at what point and how many rounds could end up to premature wear or breakage? IDK? and i'm not sure anyone could answer that question either. and if it did fail, i can just about guarantee if will be at an inopportune moment. Murphy's Law! past experience has shown me nothing ever breaks at a time it's convenient.
I am glad someone else is doing this testing for me. I love the .357, but don't shoot the real hot loads because I have no reason to. I am happy with the moderately loaded ammo and .38s to shoot mine. In fact I have an old Model- 19 that I stopped shooting .357s in completely. Well almost completely, but when I do, they are moderate rounds.
Father in law constantly complained about his POS 38 chief spl. Took him shooting and we stopped to get some commercial ammo. After we shot, I asked what he was complaining about, he did pretty decent given his hand shake. Well, maybe my buddy's load that I told him to load just before the gun blows up might have been an issue... face palm!
Ouch! Yeah, I'll bet that did sting!
I fired a cylinder full of those Buffalo Bore loads JTJ mentioned in a 4 5/8" Ruger Blackhawk a couple of months ago. My 69 year old arthritic wrist scolded me for a week!
As to cutting the top strap, my Ruger Blackhawk exhibited signs of that early on. I attributed that to the use of Unique powder at the time. However several years ago I read a study of "flame cutting" and the author stated that it was not "flame cutting" but rather particle cutting, and that in his study, occurred early on then got no worse.
My old Ruger Blackhawk did show this after about 5,000 rounds but got no worse. It currently stands at about 17,000 rounds and still chugs along perfectly.
From my own observation, internal parts fail long before any problem emerges with the frame or cylinder.
I would use it in a 6 inch barrel, sparingly. As a "stop them in their tracks" load, it would do it; and as a bedroom gun, it would rock.
But, I would not use it in a 3 inch gun, too much to handle in my book. I would be concerned about wearing out the gun too.
I stay away from hotter than standard factory loads. They are usually punishing on you the gun and the wallet. I could hand load them but see no reason to over stress my revolvers. I do have a single shot rifle I could load hot but I like my ammo to be compatible. No accidents that way. A 357 produces 150 db or more which is the same as a 12 gauge shotgun. Not a good load for inside a house.
If the Safe Hearing Act passes I will get a suppressor for the rifle and load 38spl subsonic.
I do load one set of "hot" 357 Magnum loads. For use only in a Dan Wesson 15-2 VH with a 10 inch barrel. Used only for hunting Eastern Whitetail. It is a 185 grain hard cast solid over a max charge of 2400, in new brass. I might shoot 20 of those a year- if that. Most of my .38/ 357 loads are middle of the loading specs. The heavies are used for hunting in mountain laurel thickets, where a long shot is 50 yards. Have taken 3 deer with it, none moved more than 20 feet.
That 158 @ anything like 1600 FPS from a 3" barrel would sure be something. I'm sure my wrist would be sore for a while. I tested Federal 357 158 in a S&W with 3" barrel. Averaged 1130 FPS with plenty of blast, flash and recoil. Do you have access to a chronograph?
the published spec for this ammo is out of the "reference revolver" which most take to be 8 inch.
So the published specs are never really achieved by most but I think its still a useful measure for comparison between loads.
I apologize for not making that clear .. and on rereading my original post I perhaps did not clarify it.
My expectation is indeed that this ammo "should " run between 1150-1200 out of a 3 inch based on published tables of velocity loss.
PS: And this was just me playing around for a couple cylinders. The recoil was stout enough that this 240 bs weightlifter found it impractical even painful. I did just buy 500 rds 38 SPC in +P... that should do real nicely.
yes, barrel length can affect velocity of the round. if reloading, they usually list the barrel length they used when getting their averages of listed velocities of the rounds. a person needs to adjust those accordingly for their own firearms.
most factory specs will list what barrel length was used for their averages as well. again, a person needs to adjust accordingly if their barrel length is different.
Here is another "hot one" Underwood Ammo. I did a copy cut paste below.
If for some reason Underwood Ammunition fails to meet performance expectations, we stand by our product 100% and will make sure the customer is satisfied with every purchase. This ammunition is new production, non-corrosive, in boxer primed, reloadable brass cases. Technical Information:
bluez, thanks for clearing that up. I'm often surprised by what the chronograph indicates, but the 158 at 1150 or so from a 3" gun seems in the ballpark.
Groo here
The only reason you get "sting" from an "L" frame S&W or a GP100 is the grips DON"T
fit you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In mid frame STEEL guns, the 357 is quite shootable.
I can shoot a hunting load from my M-60 Pro 3in without "sting"
But with grips that fit.
I will not shoot magnums with the factory ones.[OUCH]
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