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Home defense Shotgun

4K views 48 replies 19 participants last post by  JimRau 
#1 ·
I am looking for someone who is actually knowledgeable about California law. I have an old pump 16 gauge. It has already been re-blued and not worth collecting. It is so old it only shoots 2 1/2" cartridges. I was thinking about going short on it but staying within the legal limits and using it as purely home defense. Everything I have found so far states that as long as I keep the barrel at least 18" and the overall length at least 26", I am good to go. Has anyone else seen or read anything that contradicts that information?
 
#2 ·
Robert- welcome to the forum. When you get a minute, drop by the intro thread and say howdy.

Legal advice on the internet can be damn spotty. If my freedom hinged on it, I would check with the CA DOJ website for a definitive answer.

For the free version- CA Section 12020 regulates shotguns. As I read it, a pump shotgun gets a pass from many of the CA restrictions. Yes, keep barrel at least 18 inches, overall at least 26 inches (that is also Federal law). I would keep barrel not less than NINETEEN inches- just in case there is a hair difference between my ruler and theirs. Unless you are a good machinist, I would find a smith to bob the barrel- you want it square to the bore and crowned. Or get a second barrel, and have that one bobbed.
 
#3 ·
What ever you decide, make damn sure you know where the measurements are taken from. A 1/8" error could mean ten years in club fed.
 
#6 ·
i happen to agree very much with this. measure carefully and several times before cutting. i'd also add an extra 1/4" to 1/2" just to be on the safe side.

I would be interested in purchasing a .410 magazine-fed semi-automatic for home defense. Does anyone know of a manufacturer other than Russian Saiga?
best of my knowledge, that is the only one i know of that is available in that configuration. doesn't mean there aren't others, but i'm not aware of any.
 
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#7 ·
I would be interested in purchasing a .410 magazine-fed semi-automatic for home defense. Does anyone know of a manufacturer other than Russian Saiga?
To the best of my knowledge, no one makes a shotgun of that type anymore. At least ones they are still importing.

Now, if i may, look into a Mossberg HS410. granted, it's tube fed (5 rounds), but it is big enough to stop the threat (Is that even legal in CA?), yet small enough to be easily handled by even a wife or child, should need arise. i had 2 of them until last year, when my neighbor needed an SD shotgun, so i took her and my wife to the range, so she could train her on it.

The other one, I kept, and would not part with.

https://www.mossberg.com/product/500-tactical-hs410-home-security-50359/

Get an 18 inch 12 or 20 ga. double barrel
Uncle Joe? Is that you? :p

(Sorry. Just couldn't pass it up.
 
#8 · (Edited)
I had a smith cut my coach gun down to 18.5 and he shorten the stock a few inches. All legal. Like all have said, be very careful on the measurements. I also have an old Winchester single shot 20ga. Fun range toy. Legal barrel length and overall length.


Helmet Cap Hat Baseball cap Outdoor recreation

Wood Sleeve Gun barrel Trigger Shotgun
 
#12 ·
Why on earth would anybody severely handicap themselves on purpose when there are thousands upon thousands of nice 20 ga & 12 ga easily available anywhere? The 20 ga has such little felt recoil a 6 year old kid can shoot them. If somebody cannot shoot a 20 ga well, they have no business with a shotgun in the 1st place. A .410 is an expert's weapon. Too many beginners are handed 1 and most are full choke, making the small shot string even harder to hit with.
 
#15 ·
The new Mossberg Shockwave looks pretty cool! Anyone have one yet?

View attachment 179479
I've checked out both that and the Remington version. Not too bad of an idea, but it does come with a few downsides, such as being harder to aim than a stocked SBS would, and, just as the case is with mare's leg pistols, some states (NY is one of them) count them as an SBS, making them illegal there.

They are legal here, classed as a pistol, but I'm going to sit buying one out for a bit. I'll pick one up after the first few hundred boomerang back to the shop, after their current owner's hurt them self by not holding it right the first time they finally find a place to shoot it, as most handgun ranges here do not allow them.

At that point, as long as I am going somewhere they are legal, truck gun. I'd use the 20 ga JIC I already have, but PA does not allow one to carry a loaded long gun in their car. Handguns or NFA items, that's covered under our LTCF, so long as the NFA items are registered with the feds and legally in our possession.
 
#17 ·
I'm considering the Mossberg Shockwave. I may wait for awhile too. With all the shootings like Vegas and such the Feds might start outlawing some of these type of weapons. Just like the "bump-stocks". (Never really wanted one of those anyways).
 
#20 ·
When the Taurus Judge came out the ammunition companies made 410 defensive loads for them. Those loads work even better in a long gun. My HD shotgun is a Mossberg 500E 410 with an 18.5" cylinder barrel. the gun came with a vent rib 24" full choke barrel and for $80 Mossberg sent me the short barrel. Just take a couple of minutes and no tools need to switch. Mine is loaded with 5 3" shells each containing 4 .40" balls. You need to aim as it is very tight. At 30 yards it will still put all 4 balls on an 8" target. I have let a few women shoot the 410 with defensive loads and they love it.
As for the Shockwave, it needs a flashlight and laser. I have not figured out a way to mount them except with a rail on the top of the receiver. It was designed to shoot from the hip so the laser is necessary until you get the muscle memory down. I would load it with Aguila Mini Buck. 7#4 buck + 4#1 buck in each shell. Almost doubles the capacity and recoil is on a level with a 20 gauge. Remington brought one in 20 gauge.
 
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#21 ·
#22 ·
Thought you might like this video.
 
#27 ·
Wouldn't cutting the barrel would be a bad idea. Granted I am not a gunsmith but the 1148 is a recoil operated gun where the barrel and bolt recoiling cylce the gun. I would worry that the reduced weight of the barrel could affect reliability.

One last thing. The 1148 410 is a joy to handle and shoot and are becoming very collectable. I was lucky enough to pick one up at a pawn shop for $150 years ago for a rabbit gun. I forget the barrel length but it is a compact enough gun as is I don't see what cutting the barrel would do other than ruin a classic.
I talked with a lot of USMC vets from both Korea and Vietnam, some of which did use an 11-48, bought, and brought along by them, not issued, which was shortened to about a 20 inch barrel, with no cycling issues. that is according to them, and I was always taught to not believe what you hear, and about half of what you see, so it's something I would want to try out with a barrel with some issues 22 inches plus, along it's length.

Sefintiely not a barrel in perfect condition, so long as it's still good before the 21 inch or so mark. Maybe one with a nice dent in it.

That way, I'm not taking out a good one, and I can do a comparison between the one on it, which is still in excellent condition for it's age, and one that has been cut down.

As to it affecting it, to me, that would be a yes, as it is recoil\inertia driven. The real question is, "How much will it affect the operation?"
 
#28 ·
K, I would think you would lose the light load capabilities but the heavy buck loads and slugs would function.
 
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#30 ·
i have no idea if that is true or not, but it's likely that most using a shorter barrel, are more than likely going to be using buckshot or slugs in the shorter barrel for home defensive purposes.

just on personal preference, this is why my preference for pump shotguns, rather semi-auto shotguns. because they are not dependent on gas or recoil to be able to fire another round. hey, in the field missing a shot on a bird because of malfunction isn't that big of deal. but in a home invasion, a failure to function could be potentially deadly. this is why i prefer the simplicity of pump shotguns.
 
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#32 ·
my thoughts? if i had an original 11-48 shotgun, i sure wouldn't cut down the original barrel. if i could source an extra barrel off Ebay, flea market, gun shop or a gun auction, that would be the barrel i'd modify by cutting it shorter.
 
#33 ·
You have to ask? "Will it Hurt Me in Court?”

Clearly, some [jurors] believe the decision to use a certain weapon type may be an indicator that a user’s mindset is more aggressive than simple self-defense.” In home defense situations, handguns are surprisingly less threatening to juries than shotguns or rifles. But if you do opt for a home scattergun, a plain-Jane model with a wood stock and fore-grip is far less problematic than one with a black pistol grip stock and fore-grip. And be advised, the more accessories on your gun, the worse the reaction of the jury.
A prosecuting attorney may argue that you chose your “widow-maker” handgun with the intent on living the life of a vigilante – a “human hunter” -just looking for the opportunity to shoot someone (whether justified or not).

This is something to keep in mind as you select your personal or home defense handgun or other weapon.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usconcealedcarry.com/what-will-a-jury-think/amp/

https://moderncombatandsurvival.com/featured/3-guns-juries-hate-land-jail-even-youre-innocent/
 
#35 ·
i'm sorry but i have to disagree. those sorts of arguments come up quite often about guns or ammo a person might use for self defense or home defense. and it's nonsense.

why? two reasons. one, if the shooting was justified and righteous to begin with, then the choice of gun or type of ammo is irrelevant. as long as they were legal to own.

second, if you're sitting in court, and a prosecutor is putting forth his case, then one of two things happened. one, the facts of the shooting didn't line up with with a statement of the events, or something has piqued the BS meter of the investigators. which if the DA's office brought up charges, the grand jury didn't believe the story, the prosecutor didn't believe the story, and guess what? highly likely the judge and jury aren't going to believe your story. or there is the very possible fact you live in a very gun unfriendly state, or city with a more of those with anti-gun leanings, than law abiding gun owners, which means you were screwed from the get go just for having any type of gun for self defense or home defense.

now here's the deal. show any cases where a law abiding gun owners using a legal firearm or ammo has been prosecuted for a type of gun used, and the gun or ammo were a mitigating factor of determining guilt in justified and righteous self defense shooting.
 
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