why is this happening?

Discussion in '1911 Forum' started by Hot Sauce NARC, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

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    When i was shooting my new 1911 the other day i had a strange thing happen to me a couple of times. The slide would lock back like on an empty magazine, but there would still be one or two rounds in the mag. I was using brand new wilson combat mags and speer lawman 230gr roundnose ammo. o i forgot the rounds in the mag would be slightly forward, like the rim of the case was about 1/4 of an inch from the back of the mag.
     
  2. Samples.32

    Samples.32 New Member

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    Well, speer isn't exactly the best ammo (good target ammo though) it's possible that the pressure rom the bullets was not hot enough to cycle through properly I had that happen a whole lot using speer ammo in my colt 45.
     

  3. indy_kid

    indy_kid New Member

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    It's cycling...

    It's hot enough to push the slide back so that it's locking on what it THINKS is an empty mag.

    2 Likely Sources:

    1. The lips of the mag are slightly off. Try opening them slightly, making sure the edges are parallel, etc. You might go to your local gun shop, where they should have several other mags you can use for comparison.

    2. The feed ramp isn't polished. New ramps can be a little rough from the milling, and some makers may not take the time to properly polish it. Lead bullets can easily snag on the rough surface.

    Polish the ramp, and try again with FMJ ammo.
     
  4. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Hotsauce, didn't you have some concerns about the appearance of the ramp, earlier? Dimpled or something?
     
  5. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

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    ya it had some little knicks in the finish it had from the factory, this particular model of kimber had the internal parts coated like the outside and the feed ramp was starting to chip, i polished the finish off of it and got it pretty smooth, but i dont think its hanging up on the feed ramp
     
  6. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Hot Sauce - I am inclined to agree that the problem is probably your mag, or the combo of the mag and that ammo. I don't think it's a problem with your weapon.

    If the feed ramp was causing the issue, you would get the round part way out of the mag and it hang up going into the chamber.

    This sounds like the round isn't even leaving the mag, it's merely being pushed forward enough to cause significant force to lock the slide in place and make it think you have an empty mag.

    I would try a couple of different mags before I made any modifications to the weapon itself.

    If it starts doing the same thing with each and every mag you try, then I might consider either the strength of the recoil spring, or the feed ramp, but I kind of doubt either of those are really your problem...

    JD
     
  7. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

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    Thanks JD the first 50-60 rounds i fired i had this happen about once a mag, but after about 200 rounds it stopped happening as much and toward the end it didnt happen at all so maybe the mags were just tight and theyll get better with more ammo so ill just try and shoot the problems out of it :Dand if it keeps happening ill try to rediagnose.
     
  8. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Depending on the Model of 1911, there are those that will tell you that you need to expend 500 or 600 rounds through a 1911 to get it "broken in".

    I have never prescribed to this theory - but the first 1911 I purchased was a Kimber - so I kind of jumped into the deep end.

    I have heard this "500 or 600" round clear up plenty of 1911's from certain manufacturers, so I would be interested to hear of your final thoughts on the issue.

    There is nothing wrong with extra practice, but to "plan" on a weapon needing that kind of "work" before it is reliable has always puzzled me.

    I will be looking forward to your updates - please keep us informed!

    JD
     
  9. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    Does the problem happen with the Kimber mags?

    Slide lock-back is simple mechanics, mag follower rises to the empty position and contacts the lock forcing it up into the slide's lock relief on its final recoil.

    That's why I only use mags with metal followers that make that important contact point.
     
  10. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

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    I havent tried the kimber mag i will next time to see what happens

    i did go into a gunsmith this evening and he looked at it, and played with it for a while, and he said it may be the spring holds tension on the slide lock may need to be stretched a little bit providing more tension. He said that on the 6th or 7th shot when the slide recoils if there was not enough tension on that spring the slide lock could flip up and lock the slide back.
     
  11. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    The Kimbers have a spring on the slide lock? I don't think so, unless you are referring to the mag spring and I thought the Wilson's were new??

    Either you got the info wrong or you need a new gunsmith!

    This is why I use Tripp Research Cobra Mags:

    [​IMG]

    This is a Wilson Combat ETM on top, and a Tripp Cobra mag with the long skirt steel/polymer hybrid follower on the bottom.

    [​IMG]

    The second reason the Tripp Cobra mags are superior is the machined feed lips. The Cobra is on the left and the Wilson ETM on the right. The metal forming is night and day. Notice how the round sits squarely back in the mag on the Cobra.

    The feed lips are longer on the Cobra holding the round longer as it's stripped and moves forward to battery. The other arrow shows how the Tripp forming is much more fluid than the Wilson.

    follower examples.jpg

    From a shooter's viewpoint, I find the Tripp Research mags to be works of art and from my experience have verified, in this case, function follows form!

    From an engineer's viewpoint, I have found no other 1911 magazine that comes close to the quality and function of the Tripp Research Cobra mag.

    Are they expensive? What price do you value your life? In my carry Colt you will only find a Cobra mag!

    Why would you even consider putting a $14 mag in a $1,200 carry piece?
     
  12. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member

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    I disagree this is a mag problem. The slide stop should normally be in the down position. It should come up only when the mag follower forces it up. If the slide stop is raising prematurely it is either too long (protruding into the mag well too far) or is flopping around in recoil. Look at the plunger/plunger tube on the left side of the frame. If it is loose, buggered up, misplaced or the plunger is not contacting the slide stop properly this can occur.
     
  13. masterPsmith

    masterPsmith New Member

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    Have someone take a photo of your two hand hold and post it here. If you are right handed and are using a left thumb forward hold, as in speed shooting, your left thumb may be contacting the slide stop and putting upwards pressure on it causing the slide to lock back. Just a thought, but I do see this with some of my students at times.

    Jim.................
     
  14. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member

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  15. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    That has to be the issue. Verify that Hot. I never let my fingers get near the slide stop or the thumb safety. Some shooters rest their thumbs on them but not me! Never interrupt a moving part!
     
  16. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Especially with any flesh covered and attached to the human body. :p

    JD
     
  17. orangello

    orangello New Member

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  18. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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  19. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

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    DUDE! Come on your mom has hairy nipples but i dont make fun of her:eek:

    +1 on what Robo said about the slide lock flopping around under recoil, thats what my smith said, i just had trouble articulating what he said to me.
     
  20. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    LOL! Wait..."uncle" Gary, is that you?
    j/k :D