Long range 22 scope

Discussion in '.22 Rifle/Rimfire Discussion' started by herp_man2003, Oct 29, 2013.

  1. herp_man2003

    herp_man2003 New Member

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    Im looking for a scope for my savage mark ii long range prodject. I will be shooting at 200 yards mostly. I think i want to have a 100 yard zero and the use mildots for hold over. I want to spend 200 and it has to have the side adjust perilex. So what would you all recomend? Thanks
     
  2. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    The .22 rim fire is a dependable rifle at 75 yards. You can expect a drop of 35 to 44 inches at 200 yards. The 300 yard drop will vary around 100 inches. The bullet at 200 yards is sensitive to "Yaw" and even very light wind conditions. I doubt that a Mildot scope would be of much value under these conditions. The Mildot calculations are based on known factors.:)
     

  3. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    I have tested a 22LR while I was sighting in a centerfire rifle. 200 yard shots are possible with a 22LR. You will get frustrated rather quickly with 200 yard shots. At 200 yards the 22LR bullet is wobbling trying to tumble. Over 250 yards the 22 LR is tumbling. You can tell by the size and shape of the hole in the paper what the bullet was doing when it hit the paper. I was using CCI mini mags when I tested the 22LR. You might find ammo that will spiral and cut a clean hole at 200 yards but it will require a lot of trial and error. I used a marlin 60 with iron sights for my testing.
     
  4. herp_man2003

    herp_man2003 New Member

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    I will be using mostly wolf team match ammo. It has produced the best groups at 100 yards for me. Im not trying to shoot moa groups at that range but rather looking to be able to make consistent hits on my rimfire popper target. I have been shooting a 10" table saw blade at that range and i dont miss that. So now im looking to upgrade my setup to hopefully make it more consistent. Im going to drop this in a boyds tacticool stock that im going to piller and glass bed. And im planning on using the d.i.p. bottom metal. Thanks
     
  5. Triumphman

    Triumphman New Member

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    For something like you're wanting to do, I would recommend a Simmons 44MAG 7-21x44SF(I believe this is the powers). The Glass used compares to the Aeztec Scopes (Aspherical) for clarity.
    I have a Simmons 44MAG in 4-12 on a 22Mag and it's a great Scope for the cost w/SF.

    I can recommend others, but don't know if available with Side Focus. BSA Contender or Platinum in 6-24x(?), Mueller APT in 6-24x(?).
    All others I can think of is more around the $300+ costs.
    Del
     
  6. hairbear1

    hairbear1 New Member

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    I hope you aren't expecting MOA or something like that or expect to pull off a Bobby Lee Swaggert shot/s because you'll have a huge drinking problem if you are and no fingernails or hair left.

    Every year I attend a big bore shoot in the south of Australia(Albury/Wodonga) on the border of New SouthWales and Victoria where the Aussie hunting forum I'm a member of holds a 3 day get together with other members from all over Australia and we shoot everything from .22 pistols up to .50 cal rifles plus Black Powder and a cannon.

    In that weekend we hold a few comps and 1 is a 200 metre .22 rifle Challenge cup called the "Black Panther Cup" in which you have to hit an A4 sized bit of paper with a black Panther on it in the head and even on a still day it takes a fair bit of luck and guesstimation with the diminutive .22 to hit it in the head.

    I'm guessing something in the 4-12x 50 range will be the go as you'll need every bit of magnification you can get to at least get close.

    Good luck with it.
     
  7. dwmiller

    dwmiller Active Member

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    If you serious about this get a long range mount with about 20moa of inclination(?) built into it. Most mildot Scopes don't have enough adjustment to handle this amount of drop.

    Also the highest velocity ammo you can find will aid you. The bullet becomes unstable as it drops into the subsonic range and starts to yaw. Maybe something like the aquilla interceptor highspeeds would give you enough velocity to keep it supersonic at this range.

    Interesting project, keep us updated on your results. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
  8. herp_man2003

    herp_man2003 New Member

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    I guess i should have mentioned that i am planning on putting an egw 20moa mount on this. I have to have it drilled and tapped first though. It is an accu-trigger model but the receiver is grooved. Im sending out my bolt tomorrow to have a larger bolt knob put on. That wont help it shooting but it looks good.
     
  9. steadyshot

    steadyshot New Member

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    I have a savage 93R17 with a Bushnell Legend Ultra HD 4.5-14x44mm.

    It is an excellent scope and more than adequate for any .22 rifle.

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  10. herp_man2003

    herp_man2003 New Member

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    Nice rifle there. I will post up some pics when i get it all together.
     
  11. primer1

    primer1 New Member

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    Or find an accurate subsonic load. The bullet will begin to tumble when it transitions between supersonic and subsonic. Starting with a subsonic will reduce the tumble effect, but you will need more holdover to account for the lack of velocity.
     
  12. dwmiller

    dwmiller Active Member

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    Good reasoning but starting subsonic the bullet probably won't be able to make the 200 yd range. Holdover would be like shooting artillery. Not saying its impossible to lob the lead that far, just that with something like 6' of holdover its no longer rifle shooting. :)

    Even with the fastest initial velocity a 22 is pretty marginal at this range according to my ballistics calculator. Ballistics Coefficent determines how much a bullet will drop at any range and velocity combo. Just can't get a better B.C. without increasing bullet length. This increases the weight and decreases the initial velocity. Air friction is a pain in the ass! ;)

    Ideally you would start with a ~36 grain copper solid with a good streamlined secant profile , a boat tail base and a poly point the get the highest B.C. and longest bullet possible for the weight. Think of a profile like the hornady a-max. There is a good reason that long range bullets are all very long compared to caliber diameter. Copper has a lower density so longer bullet for the same weight. About 1650 fps initial velocity, are required to stay supersonic past 200 yards, according to my calculations. Your should just be able to make this velocity with a 22 LR case and the fastest powder charged to the limit or a little bit compressed. As long as the bullet doesn't become so long it won't feed through your magazines. Wait that's the reason all us long range shooters feed single rounds by hand. ;)

    Too bad no one makes a 22 LR with this type of bullet as a factory round. Maybe someone will since Callie is going lead free...;) Be poetic justice if the libretards get us to design a better bullet ... :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2013
  13. herp_man2003

    herp_man2003 New Member

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    Im already shooting at this range. I use wolf team match mostly which is a standard velocity load. I make consistent hits on a 10" table saw blade. Im looking to shrink my target size. The scope i have now is just a cheap one from amazon but it goes to 24x. I hate the parallex adjustment mostly. Thats why im looking to up grade my scope along with other components. Thanks
     
  14. dwmiller

    dwmiller Active Member

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    Shrinking the groupsize will be much easier with higher velocity. At standard velocity you are just breaking subsonic at this range. That is the reason for the above explanation. The supersonic/subsonic induced yaw is the probable cause of your groupsize issue. 12 years as an army sniperschool instructor does give me a little insight into the problem. ;)

    Not trying to be an ass about it, just trying to explain the problem that I see and a possible solution.

    The scope you have should be capable of M.O.A. accurate shots already. Parallax is a problem but becomes less noticeable with consistent head position and good cheek weld. 200 yard shots with a 223 are done all day long with only 4x magnifiers and training quality rifles. Many recruits manage 1-2" group size at this range with a little practice. Same diameter bullet, higher weight, better velocity and better B.C.

    Also i spent an hour with the ballistics calculator looking at 22 lr performance. This is my reasoning for pinning the groupsize problem on velocity induced bullet yaw, the most likely culprit. Again just trying to help.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2013
  15. herp_man2003

    herp_man2003 New Member

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    I could be wrong, but i believe that the wolf and other match type ammo is never super sonic. I use this ammo because it groups best for me at 100 yards. Like i said i dont think it breaks the sound barrier. I have shot ammo such as cci mini mags and while they group well at 50 yards they dont shoot worth a darn at 100. My understanding was that the accuracy was affected when the bullet came back through the sound barrier. If im wrong please forgive me. Thanks
     
  16. huffmanite

    huffmanite New Member

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    Loaned a 6-24x44 BSA Platinum scope to a gent to try his hand at 200 yd shooting with his very accurate 22LR. As we suspected, not enough elevation adjustment in my Platinum scope for shooting a 200 yd target with a 22LR.
     
  17. dwmiller

    dwmiller Active Member

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    Then I definitely own you an apology. I was looking at and older box of wolf NON-match that lists velocity as 1225 fps, standard velocity. I wrongly assumed that this was the same as the ammo that you were using. I apologies for any misunderstanding this has caused. You are right in that the ammo you are shooting IS subsonic and not affected by the yaw I previously stated.
     
  18. JTJ

    JTJ Active Member

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    http://swfa.com/BSA-6-18x40-Sweet-22-Riflescope-P13056.aspx
    I have the 3x9 version of this and the turrets are accurate. Since you are going with a 20 moa base you can extend the range. Just make your own BDC reference on one of the turrets with some white tape.
    The 22lr uses a heeled bullet since the case and bullet diameter are the same. Not much chance of finding a better bullet. You might as well go CF if you are going to that much trouble.
     
  19. herp_man2003

    herp_man2003 New Member

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    No worries. I was looking at it as a learning opportunity. Im kinda looking at a barsaka swat gen 2 scope. I loved my muller 8x32 power scope but i kinda want the mils to hold over and keep my scope zeroed at 100, but the idea of using a little tape to mark my ranges is a thought. I will post some pics when i get it all together and maybe a range report or two as well. Thanks all
     
  20. dwmiller

    dwmiller Active Member

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    That's what caught my eye about your post its really pushing the outer limits of the caliber. Please keep us posted on your progress.