Fortification?

Discussion in 'Survival & Sustenance Living Forum' started by TLuker, Mar 12, 2012.

  1. TLuker

    TLuker New Member

    3,937
    0
    0
    This came up in another thread and it got my attention because this is something I’ve been struggling with. There were several good arguments in the other thread against fortification, and I agree 100% with the points made. I’m not planning on following the example set by the folks at the Alamo. My problem is that I can’t see any viable alternative to fortification.

    Staying mobile could work for a while for a lone individual but it wouldn’t work for a family. You would be too vulnerable and too exposed while moving (not to mention where are you going?). There’s also the issue of food for a family. You will have to have food to feed a family and that means having things. In order to continue to have things you would have to be able to defend those things. At some point you would also need to grow some new things and then you’re not going anywhere, and you would have to defend those crops 24/7. You would end with a fortification.

    There are some situations where you would have no choice but to leave, and in a hurry. But assuming a social collapse (and you’re not living in an urban area), there really wouldn’t be anywhere to go. No matter what you will inevitably end up with a fortification.

    So how could you make fortification work without it tuning into a last stand? Or what alternative would there be?
     
  2. downsouth

    downsouth New Member

    5,009
    0
    0
    I think you have hit on the big issue of prepping. I would think you could have a fall back position with cached goods depending on the local topography. If you lived in a small community with enough like minded people maybe you could have a suitable position.

    I struggle with the idea of defending a place. I guess it would be much akin to building a sandcastle at the beach in a way. You build it away from the threat and as strong as you can. Eventually the tide will come in an wipe out your efforts. For me the whole fortress situation would depend on how big the "tide" would be. Who knows that when you are preparing. IMHO
     

  3. md1911

    md1911 New Member

    93
    0
    0
    I agree no matter how well you build and plan a fortified position it can be overcome. I like fallback position and supply catches. I would also suggeste multiple escape routes. Not even a mouse trust's having one hole.
     
  4. Soliferrum

    Soliferrum New Member

    227
    0
    0
    i just dont understand why people build bunkers or horde their house. or put all their food in the basement of the house. "we have enough food to survive for 4 years, as of now." thats good cause chances are you will only use 1 years worth before youre raided.
     
  5. TLuker

    TLuker New Member

    3,937
    0
    0
    I agree but what's the alternative? I'm thinking at some point you would have to make a stand and fight or you would never have anything. The question then becomes how, when, and where? Personally I would want to do it from a fortress, and at a very long distance.
     
  6. partdeux

    partdeux New Member

    4,543
    0
    0
    In a true SHTF, 1 month at best.

    Reading the Bosnian blog RW experience was eye opening... we have no idea.
     
  7. Soliferrum

    Soliferrum New Member

    227
    0
    0
    i agree you will have to fight, but stand? i guess i should clear up the "fort" im thinkin of is a family that has barricaded themselves in their house. But if the fort is an actual fort complete with a large group of like minded individuals complete with farms and a leadership cast...thats a bit of a different level. in that case, bring ammo and a skill, enjoy post apocalyptic life.
     
  8. Soliferrum

    Soliferrum New Member

    227
    0
    0
    i actually gave a year to be optimistic and break the news to the preppers easy. my entire life has been spent in an urban area, when the laws of reason give way, the madness will come out. and you are right, the idea people have is no where even close to whats to come.
     
  9. TLuker

    TLuker New Member

    3,937
    0
    0
    That's more along the lines of what I've got in mind. But even then fixed fortification is dangerous. I just can't think of any alternative.
     
  10. WillFire

    WillFire New Member

    5
    0
    0
    The problem with the stay-or-go argument is the assumption that you can go. If there is no electricity, finding fuel of any kind is a pipe dream. What then?
    Where can you drive to (until fuel is expended), then where can you walk?
    Unless you have a destination, you are at the mercy I where your fuel and ability to move ends (injury, sickness, etc.).
    I see three basic choices: You can hope that where you "end up" will be good, stay put and fight, or plan on making it to a spot (with like minded people/family) and hunker down. IMHO

    Si vis pacem, para bellum
     
  11. TimKS

    TimKS Lifetime Supporting Member

    395
    0
    0
    The thread got my attention.....I thought it said fornication. :D
     
  12. Soliferrum

    Soliferrum New Member

    227
    0
    0
    an actual fixed fortification is incredibly hard to take. even if you go roman outpost style you can dig a trench, line it with spikes and pitch, high walls, revolving guard. that will actually take alot of people, planning, gear, and work to take. that right there is not a bad idea to hunker down in.


    heh-heh alllllright
     
  13. Ray_Ray

    Ray_Ray New Member

    98
    0
    0
    So I'm new around here. I have pondered the thought of it hitting the fan for years. Never acted on it, but seeing how its not getting better I'm reconsidering. How ever I'm not sure where to start and I'm having truoble getting my wife on board. And the the funds aren't really there. So my question is how do you prep, one with little to no extra cash, two when you can't really get your spouse on board. Space isn't an issue as I live on 9.5 acres. I have started acquiring guns. Working on getting a shot gun and a rifle. But my main worry is food. Its my wife and I and two kids. So just rambling now but any advice is helpful. Thanks guys.
     
  14. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    The problem and solution is simple.

    The problem is we all as a nation watch last man standing themed movies play the games read the books so we get the mindset to do it solo cant trust anyone.

    Humans are not solitary animals we are genetically disposed to being social.

    In a true shtf we have to reach out to our neighbors and fellows and treat each other with the same dignity we show our families. Its great to think you can be a lone wolf and fun to plan and such. But we have to band together in groups like the people who get smacked by tornados do. Like the people devastated by tsunamis did.

    Acting like a bunch of savages and hiding in a bunker is nothing but barbaric selfish behaviour if the truth be known. Personally the wife and i will head to a warmer southern climate and help rebuild. This doesnt mean i wont have extra food on hand and such.

    I just wont be acting like a selfish tard hiding in a bunker. I will be out helping keep order or rebuild as best possible
     
  15. spack762

    spack762 New Member

    197
    0
    0
     
  16. Durangokid

    Durangokid New Member

    1,799
    0
    0
    Store food and weapons and hide in a "Bunker"? Who is going to attack? Who will you be hidding from? Is this protection from an invading army? Is this from people you know needing help? If it is from an invading army your hunting rifle may not be much help. Have you ever seen a flame thrower used on a Bunker. How will you know who to kill when you look out of your Bunker and see little kids and grown ups heading your way? This sorta sounds like the Mel Gibson movies about "Mad Max".:)
     
  17. Soliferrum

    Soliferrum New Member

    227
    0
    0
    thats how it always ends up because everyone has an end of the world idea. so what one person has as an idea of what armageddon is, the other guy is thinking something completely different. man its like a rat test with these things. one starts one up and we all keep biting the electric food cause no one agrees.
     
  18. fireguy

    fireguy New Member

    1,854
    0
    0
    If you are wanting to get a bigger store of food and don't have much extra to spend the easiest way to do it is to buy two of something you eat instead of one when shopping. When the one is used buy two more. For a few dollars each shopping trip you can increase your pantry by double or triple in short order without a big one time hit to the pocket. The key is to not use everything up and have to start over. Maybe instead of having that soda at work you drink water and save the money for a can of fruit for the pantry.
    Baby steps will get you there, it just takes longer. Any extra you get stored for time of emergency is better than not having it.

    It doesn't have to be Armegeddon, a blizzard, ice storm, unexpected expense like car or house repair are all things that can be made easier with some food prep. If you have to get the trans fixed on the family truckster and money is tight, get into the stores, that's what they are for. Just replace when you can. Things like rice, beans, and pasta are inexpensive to make some substantial meals. Good luck.
     
  19. Durangokid

    Durangokid New Member

    1,799
    0
    0
    Do you really think most of the guys are worried about a truck tranny?:rolleyes:
     
  20. The_Kid

    The_Kid New Member

    564
    0
    0
    To me, a basement with a strong door isn't fortification. A fort would be on high ground, defended by high walls, defended by an arsenal and a force of men/women comprised from the surrounding population which benefits from it... People will not try and take over such a position; it isn't cost effective.